4 ms·

> It was definitely Israel who violated Iranian sovereignty first here, no? With the killing of IRGC commanders in a Syrian consulate. Neither country has attac

by edanm 3y ago

> It was definitely Israel who violated Iranian sovereignty first here, no? With the killing of IRGC commanders in a Syrian consulate. Neither country has attacked Israel recently. Iran funds Hamas, which attacked Israel on October 7th (and has attacked it many other times). It funds Hezbollah, which has been attacking Israel since October 7th, partially from Syria.

aprilthird2021 3y ago
And the US funds Israel who has extrajudicially assassinated Iranian civilians in Iran in the past few years. So can Iran then blow up an American embassy with justification?
- edanm 3y ago
  The US itself has assassinated Iranian generals. > So can Iran then blow up an American embassy with justification? Well, that's a tough question. If you're asking legally or something, idk, I have no real knowledge of this. If you're asking practically, yes, the US is powerful and is able to do things that other countries can't. If you're asking morally - there's no question in my mind that the US should do whatever is possible to weaken the Iranian regime. For all its faults, the US are the "good guys" on the world stage right now. The Iranian regime is a dictatorship that has taken a wonderful people hostage and is forcing them to live by religious laws that many (most?) would be happy to live without. It is evil, pure and simple. It is also incredibly dangerous, has funded terrorism for years, has destabilized the entire Middle East for years, and is likely to wipe out Israel if given the chance. I'm not shedding any tears over the US trying to stop the Iranian regime. (And note - this only goes for the Iranian leadership, the Iranian people are wonderful and should be protected at all costs!)
  - enterprise_cog 3y ago
    [dead]
  - aprilthird2021 3y ago
    I'm not talking about generals, I'm talking about civilians. Israel famously assassinated an Iranian civilian in Iran with a machine gun deployed remotely. >If you're asking morally - there's no question in my mind that the US should do whatever is possible to weaken the Iranian regime My original point was that Iran has not invaded Israel or even prematurely attacked or postured against it, the way Russia and China have done to the territories they wish to invade. It's quite the opposite. You even agree here that the US should essentially have carte blanche to destroy Iran because... it's a religious dictatorship (seriously that's all)??? Some of the closest US allies are religious dictatorships who have the exact same religious rules as Iran??? In fact, the US and Israel heavily court religious dictatorships who force their populations to live by the exact same religious laws! A very outlandish take, to be honest, but it serves my point well. Iran's actions against Israel are defensive ones against a bloodthirsty enemy who seems to have a very poor reason to want to destroy it.
    - edanm 3y ago
      Are you referring to "Mohsen Fakhrizadeh"? I mean, yes, technically he's not a soldier, but I don't think just calling him "an Iranian civilian" gives the whole context - "he was regarded as the chief of Iran's nuclear program." per Wikipedia. > My original point was that Iran has not invaded Israel or even prematurely attacked or postured against it, the way Russia and China have done to the territories they wish to invade. Umm.. that's just false. Even leaving aside the current "round", Iran has been funding terrorists and militias to attack Israel for 50 years. Iran funded Hamas, and to some extent directs Hamas, which invaded Israel and killed a thousand citizens while shooting rockets at Israel. And that's just in the last 6 months. Hamas has been shooting rockets at Israel since 2007. Hezbollah is a powerful armed group that has semi-taken-over Lebanon, and is parked on Israel's border (illegally against UN ceasefire resolutions, btw) and has shot rockets at Israel and had wars with Israel multiple times. And this goes way back. Iran famously bombed the Israeli embassy and a Jewish center in Argentina way back in the 90s [1]. As for "not posturing" against Israel - let me just pull a few quotes from the Wikipedia article called "calls for the destruction of Israel" [2] (as if the fact that such an article exists about a country makes any kind of sense in this world): "Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader, stated in 2000 that “the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region”, and in 2001 that “the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region" "In 2013 he labeled Israel a country "doomed to failure and annihilation," deeming it an "illegitimate regime" led by "untouchable rabid dogs" who "cannot be called human beings." He later outlined a nine-point plan for Israel's elimination in 2014.[22]" ""Our dear Imam (Khomeini) ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime must be erased from the page of time," and that Iran would “wipe Israel off the map” [...] In 2006, he said: "Israel heading towards annihilation”, and in another statement, "The Zionist regime will be wiped out, and humanity will be liberated”." Are you really sticking by your assertion that Iran is somehow not a threat to Israel, hasn't "invaded or postured against Israel", and that it's the opposite? > You even agree here that the US should essentially have carte blanche to destroy Iran because... it's a religious dictatorship (seriously that's all)??? Let's be clear, I'm talking about the Iranian regime here, not the people of Iran. But no, I don't think morally the US or Israel has carte blanche just because they're a religious regime. I think they have carte blanche because to take out the regime because that regime has explicitly, multiple times, claimed that it will wipe Israel off the map. > Iran's actions against Israel are defensive ones against a bloodthirsty enemy who seems to have a very poor reason to want to destroy it. If you think Israel is bloodthirsty with regards to Iran, and not just worried about itself, then you're just ignoring all available evidence to the contrary. Even with all of the above evidence aside, when Israel was founded, all the Arab states were its enemies and attacked it multiple times. The so-called "bloodthirsty" Israel now has peace agreements with many of them and is well on its way to have peace with many others, including recent announcements of a possible opening of diplomatic relations with the most populous Muslim country in the world. And all of these old enemies of Israel are united in fearing Iran and in making defensive pacts against Iran. Are they all just bloodthirsy countries who have somehow misunderstood that Iran is only interested in defending against Israel? Is Israel somehow only bloodthirsty when it comes to Iran, because... why exactly? (Note that relations between Iran and Israel went from peaceful to this after the regime change of the 1970s, not before.) Lastly, if you're somehow not convinced by actual history, or the behavior of all other countries in the region, including ones that used to be historic enemies of Israel... if all of that is somehow not convincing about the current regime, why not just listen to the Iranian people? They've been railing against the regime for years and will back up the terrible burden the regime has placed on their daily lives, and also the fact that it's trying to drag Iran into war with Israel that none of the Iranian people even want (nor do Israelis!). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentina-iran-1992-1994-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentin... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_of_Israel#:~:text=Ali%20Khamenei%2C%20Iran's%20supreme%20leader,of%20Israel%20from%20the%20region%E2%80%9D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_of_I....
- nec4b 3y ago
  They already kind of did once: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis It was the turning point in US Iran relations.
  - aprilthird2021 3y ago
    Clearly it was just preemptive because the US would eventually kill so many of their civilians in the Iraq Iran War (/s but this is the kind of logic this thread has been using)...

by edanm 3y ago

aprilthird2021 3y ago

And the US funds Israel who has extrajudicially assassinated Iranian civilians in Iran in the past few years. So can Iran then blow up an American embassy with justification?

edanm 3y ago
The US itself has assassinated Iranian generals. > So can Iran then blow up an American embassy with justification? Well, that's a tough question. If you're asking legally or something, idk, I have no real knowledge of this. If you're asking practically, yes, the US is powerful and is able to do things that other countries can't. If you're asking morally - there's no question in my mind that the US should do whatever is possible to weaken the Iranian regime. For all its faults, the US are the "good guys" on the world stage right now. The Iranian regime is a dictatorship that has taken a wonderful people hostage and is forcing them to live by religious laws that many (most?) would be happy to live without. It is evil, pure and simple. It is also incredibly dangerous, has funded terrorism for years, has destabilized the entire Middle East for years, and is likely to wipe out Israel if given the chance. I'm not shedding any tears over the US trying to stop the Iranian regime. (And note - this only goes for the Iranian leadership, the Iranian people are wonderful and should be protected at all costs!)
- enterprise_cog 3y ago
  [dead]
- aprilthird2021 3y ago
  I'm not talking about generals, I'm talking about civilians. Israel famously assassinated an Iranian civilian in Iran with a machine gun deployed remotely. >If you're asking morally - there's no question in my mind that the US should do whatever is possible to weaken the Iranian regime My original point was that Iran has not invaded Israel or even prematurely attacked or postured against it, the way Russia and China have done to the territories they wish to invade. It's quite the opposite. You even agree here that the US should essentially have carte blanche to destroy Iran because... it's a religious dictatorship (seriously that's all)??? Some of the closest US allies are religious dictatorships who have the exact same religious rules as Iran??? In fact, the US and Israel heavily court religious dictatorships who force their populations to live by the exact same religious laws! A very outlandish take, to be honest, but it serves my point well. Iran's actions against Israel are defensive ones against a bloodthirsty enemy who seems to have a very poor reason to want to destroy it.
  - edanm 3y ago
    Are you referring to "Mohsen Fakhrizadeh"? I mean, yes, technically he's not a soldier, but I don't think just calling him "an Iranian civilian" gives the whole context - "he was regarded as the chief of Iran's nuclear program." per Wikipedia. > My original point was that Iran has not invaded Israel or even prematurely attacked or postured against it, the way Russia and China have done to the territories they wish to invade. Umm.. that's just false. Even leaving aside the current "round", Iran has been funding terrorists and militias to attack Israel for 50 years. Iran funded Hamas, and to some extent directs Hamas, which invaded Israel and killed a thousand citizens while shooting rockets at Israel. And that's just in the last 6 months. Hamas has been shooting rockets at Israel since 2007. Hezbollah is a powerful armed group that has semi-taken-over Lebanon, and is parked on Israel's border (illegally against UN ceasefire resolutions, btw) and has shot rockets at Israel and had wars with Israel multiple times. And this goes way back. Iran famously bombed the Israeli embassy and a Jewish center in Argentina way back in the 90s [1]. As for "not posturing" against Israel - let me just pull a few quotes from the Wikipedia article called "calls for the destruction of Israel" [2] (as if the fact that such an article exists about a country makes any kind of sense in this world): "Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader, stated in 2000 that “the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region”, and in 2001 that “the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region" "In 2013 he labeled Israel a country "doomed to failure and annihilation," deeming it an "illegitimate regime" led by "untouchable rabid dogs" who "cannot be called human beings." He later outlined a nine-point plan for Israel's elimination in 2014.[22]" ""Our dear Imam (Khomeini) ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime must be erased from the page of time," and that Iran would “wipe Israel off the map” [...] In 2006, he said: "Israel heading towards annihilation”, and in another statement, "The Zionist regime will be wiped out, and humanity will be liberated”." Are you really sticking by your assertion that Iran is somehow not a threat to Israel, hasn't "invaded or postured against Israel", and that it's the opposite? > You even agree here that the US should essentially have carte blanche to destroy Iran because... it's a religious dictatorship (seriously that's all)??? Let's be clear, I'm talking about the Iranian regime here, not the people of Iran. But no, I don't think morally the US or Israel has carte blanche just because they're a religious regime. I think they have carte blanche because to take out the regime because that regime has explicitly, multiple times, claimed that it will wipe Israel off the map. > Iran's actions against Israel are defensive ones against a bloodthirsty enemy who seems to have a very poor reason to want to destroy it. If you think Israel is bloodthirsty with regards to Iran, and not just worried about itself, then you're just ignoring all available evidence to the contrary. Even with all of the above evidence aside, when Israel was founded, all the Arab states were its enemies and attacked it multiple times. The so-called "bloodthirsty" Israel now has peace agreements with many of them and is well on its way to have peace with many others, including recent announcements of a possible opening of diplomatic relations with the most populous Muslim country in the world. And all of these old enemies of Israel are united in fearing Iran and in making defensive pacts against Iran. Are they all just bloodthirsy countries who have somehow misunderstood that Iran is only interested in defending against Israel? Is Israel somehow only bloodthirsty when it comes to Iran, because... why exactly? (Note that relations between Iran and Israel went from peaceful to this after the regime change of the 1970s, not before.) Lastly, if you're somehow not convinced by actual history, or the behavior of all other countries in the region, including ones that used to be historic enemies of Israel... if all of that is somehow not convincing about the current regime, why not just listen to the Iranian people? They've been railing against the regime for years and will back up the terrible burden the regime has placed on their daily lives, and also the fact that it's trying to drag Iran into war with Israel that none of the Iranian people even want (nor do Israelis!). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentina-iran-1992-1994-attack.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/world/middleeast/argentin... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_of_Israel#:~:text=Ali%20Khamenei%2C%20Iran's%20supreme%20leader,of%20Israel%20from%20the%20region%E2%80%9D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calls_for_the_destruction_of_I....
nec4b 3y ago
They already kind of did once: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis It was the turning point in US Iran relations.
- aprilthird2021 3y ago
  Clearly it was just preemptive because the US would eventually kill so many of their civilians in the Iraq Iran War (/s but this is the kind of logic this thread has been using)...