4 ms·

Industrial emission of CO2 is the main factor; there's not much deindustrializing economies can do beyond deindustrailizing. And, of course, pat themselves on t

Industrial emission of CO2 is the main factor; there's not much deindustrializing economies can do beyond deindustrailizing. And, of course, pat themselves on the back as they do so. There's zero economic, social or political cost to western policies at the moment and they arent reducing CO2 emissions. It's very much "green theatre". The goal is to stop the actual levels of Co2 ppm from rising. This is all fairly meaningless; it does nothing to change the actual outcome.

sgu999 3y ago
In particular when more of that green energy is going to be used on bigger EVs, more aircon, more screens, etc. Western countries are unlikely to reduce their overall energy demand, in which we should account for the one necessary for producing the imported goods. That said, opening solar farms to shut down coal plants is a net good regardless.
akira2501 3y ago
> The goal is to stop the actual levels of Co2 ppm from rising At all? There's no acceptable ceiling here? We're just going to slam the door on the entirety of Africa yet again?
- mjburgess 3y ago
  Up to you, do you care about global Co2 levels or not? The rate of Co2 emissions is itself increasing y-o-y. We're still accelerating.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    I care to know what a reasonable upper limit is. It is the height of western arrogance to say "it's currently 400ppm, we already got ours, and so it cannot go /any/ higher, which means everyone else has to pay for out past extravagance." If we're truly that concerned about it, then we need to get to work on carbon capture and conversion, and do our part to be carbon negative so that non industrialized areas of the world have an opportunity to catch up. And this isn't just about industrialization, it's about quality of life, it's about longevity, it's about wealth. Pretending that CO2 is the only concern leaves everything else on the floor. And without any diplomacy, this is the kind of policy that starts wars. Up to you if you actually want to solve the problem in the long term or not. So, again, what's an acceptable upper limit?
    - mjburgess 3y ago
      I dont know. i dont care very much. the question is just the one you have proposed, in your colonialist defence of the colonies.. yes, indeed, it lies with what we believe of them in otherwords, our own deindustrialization is irrelevant

sgu999 3y ago

In particular when more of that green energy is going to be used on bigger EVs, more aircon, more screens, etc. Western countries are unlikely to reduce their overall energy demand, in which we should account for the one necessary for producing the imported goods. That said, opening solar farms to shut down coal plants is a net good regardless.

akira2501 3y ago

> The goal is to stop the actual levels of Co2 ppm from rising At all? There's no acceptable ceiling here? We're just going to slam the door on the entirety of Africa yet again?

mjburgess 3y ago
Up to you, do you care about global Co2 levels or not? The rate of Co2 emissions is itself increasing y-o-y. We're still accelerating.
- akira2501 3y ago
  I care to know what a reasonable upper limit is. It is the height of western arrogance to say "it's currently 400ppm, we already got ours, and so it cannot go /any/ higher, which means everyone else has to pay for out past extravagance." If we're truly that concerned about it, then we need to get to work on carbon capture and conversion, and do our part to be carbon negative so that non industrialized areas of the world have an opportunity to catch up. And this isn't just about industrialization, it's about quality of life, it's about longevity, it's about wealth. Pretending that CO2 is the only concern leaves everything else on the floor. And without any diplomacy, this is the kind of policy that starts wars. Up to you if you actually want to solve the problem in the long term or not. So, again, what's an acceptable upper limit?
  - mjburgess 3y ago
    I dont know. i dont care very much. the question is just the one you have proposed, in your colonialist defence of the colonies.. yes, indeed, it lies with what we believe of them in otherwords, our own deindustrialization is irrelevant