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The text isn't clear on if it's all or some members. I'm guessing the latter. Having a retired cop in the room who understands police work sounds pretty sensib

The text isn't clear on if it's all or some members. I'm guessing the latter. Having a retired cop in the room who understands police work sounds pretty sensible to me.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago
Sounds like the police trying to influence the boards to me. Police already have power to ruin lives or at least make them seriously inconvenient. A retired cop generally still has friends and/or family that are active cops, and therefore has some influence. Which means folks aren't nearly as free to speak or do their jobs freely. This is true even if you personally don't feel this way around any sort of law enforcement - you know others do.
- mcBesse 3y ago
  Is the tradeoff with the potential positive influence worth it? Are there ways to mitigate the potential negatives?
  - SauciestGNU 3y ago
    What's the potential positive influence here? Genuinely trying to find one. Is it that a cop can tell the board "oh that's no big deal we assault everyone?" Policing isn't hard to understand, if it were there might be some minimum training standards somewhere.
    - BurningFrog 3y ago
      The positive influence is just that a cop understands police work. It seems obvious to me that that's important knowledge for a team tasked with regulating police work. There are plenty of standards. and all cops go through a ~6 month Police Academy before they get the badge. And if you think you know as much about police work as someone who has done it for decades, I don't think we can get much further in this discussion.
      - Free-is-Freedom 3y ago
        The point is that "understanding police work" is irrelevant when you're building a body of neutral observers
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  As someone who was a reddit junkie who got guilty pleasured by youtube into watching tons of police bodycam videos... People generally have no idea what it like to be a cop and what is and isn't legal. For instance, just about every single person who resists arrest now also yells that they cannot breath. Then the cops ask if they need medical, which of course they say yes, simply to make things more difficult for the police (and waste taxpayer money to have an ambulance come out). In a vacuum it looks bad. But in the context of every single criminal doing the same extreme heel dragging, you start to see what is going on.
  - jhardy54 3y ago
    > For instance, just about every single person who resists arrest now also yells that they cannot breath. Then the cops ask if they need medical, which of course they say yes, simply to make things more difficult for the police (and waste taxpayer money to have an ambulance come out). I don’t have any trouble believing that your social media feeds have rage bait videos that follow this pattern, but I’d remind you that the videos recommended to you are unlikely to be representative of reality. Some feeds support narratives like “criminals lie and waste resources” whereas others show “cops lie and hurt people”, and what you see is strongly correlated with what will catch (and maintain) your attention.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      The body cam channels aren't really trying to push a narrative. They just take public body cam footage from a handful of locales and upload it with very little production work. It's almost no work and generates (comparatively) a lot of views. The majority of it is pretty mundane, lots of drunk people. I wouldn't compare it to agenda channels that upload heavily edited and cherry picked content with "telling you how to feel" narration. The unedited average police doing average police work content is enough to stand on its own.
      - jamiek88 3y ago
        No, no MY bubble is reality.
ceejayoz 3y ago
Perhaps there should be a confirmed victim of police brutality on the review board? Surely that would be similarly beneficial?
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  I get your point, but I think some kind of civil rights lawyer would be better than some beaten up criminal.
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    Not everyone who has been a victim of police violence is a criminal.
  - mrgoldenbrown 3y ago
    Yikes. Getting beat up by the police doesn't make you a criminal.
jasonlotito 3y ago
I don't know what you are talking about. The text is very clear on this. 30.61 Establishment of civilian oversight boards. (1) A county sheriff may establish a civilian oversight board to review the policies and procedures of his or her office and its subdivisions. (2) The board must be composed of at least three and up to seven members appointed by the sheriff, one of which shall be a retired law enforcement officer. They can appoint everyone on it. This is something setup by the sheriff, and the sheriff controls the appointments. They don't have ot appoint all the people, but they can. Which means the original comment still stands. > Having a retired cop in the room who understands police work sounds pretty sensible to me. That doesn't mean they have to be on the board. You can easily bring cops in when needed.
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  OK, that's quite clear. The article was less so. > That doesn't mean they have to be on the board. You can easily bring cops in when needed. The experience from Oakland/SF is that the review boards gets controlled by anti police activist who make policing near impossible.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    I'm told that the key to good governance is gridlock, checks and balances.

The text isn't clear on if it's all or some members. I'm guessing the latter. Having a retired cop in the room who understands police work sounds pretty sensible to me.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago

Sounds like the police trying to influence the boards to me. Police already have power to ruin lives or at least make them seriously inconvenient. A retired cop generally still has friends and/or family that are active cops, and therefore has some influence. Which means folks aren't nearly as free to speak or do their jobs freely. This is true even if you personally don't feel this way around any sort of law enforcement - you know others do.

mcBesse 3y ago
Is the tradeoff with the potential positive influence worth it? Are there ways to mitigate the potential negatives?
- SauciestGNU 3y ago
  What's the potential positive influence here? Genuinely trying to find one. Is it that a cop can tell the board "oh that's no big deal we assault everyone?" Policing isn't hard to understand, if it were there might be some minimum training standards somewhere.
  - BurningFrog 3y ago
    The positive influence is just that a cop understands police work. It seems obvious to me that that's important knowledge for a team tasked with regulating police work. There are plenty of standards. and all cops go through a ~6 month Police Academy before they get the badge. And if you think you know as much about police work as someone who has done it for decades, I don't think we can get much further in this discussion.
    - Free-is-Freedom 3y ago
      The point is that "understanding police work" is irrelevant when you're building a body of neutral observers
Workaccount2 3y ago
As someone who was a reddit junkie who got guilty pleasured by youtube into watching tons of police bodycam videos... People generally have no idea what it like to be a cop and what is and isn't legal. For instance, just about every single person who resists arrest now also yells that they cannot breath. Then the cops ask if they need medical, which of course they say yes, simply to make things more difficult for the police (and waste taxpayer money to have an ambulance come out). In a vacuum it looks bad. But in the context of every single criminal doing the same extreme heel dragging, you start to see what is going on.
- jhardy54 3y ago
  > For instance, just about every single person who resists arrest now also yells that they cannot breath. Then the cops ask if they need medical, which of course they say yes, simply to make things more difficult for the police (and waste taxpayer money to have an ambulance come out). I don’t have any trouble believing that your social media feeds have rage bait videos that follow this pattern, but I’d remind you that the videos recommended to you are unlikely to be representative of reality. Some feeds support narratives like “criminals lie and waste resources” whereas others show “cops lie and hurt people”, and what you see is strongly correlated with what will catch (and maintain) your attention.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    The body cam channels aren't really trying to push a narrative. They just take public body cam footage from a handful of locales and upload it with very little production work. It's almost no work and generates (comparatively) a lot of views. The majority of it is pretty mundane, lots of drunk people. I wouldn't compare it to agenda channels that upload heavily edited and cherry picked content with "telling you how to feel" narration. The unedited average police doing average police work content is enough to stand on its own.
    - jamiek88 3y ago
      No, no MY bubble is reality.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Perhaps there should be a confirmed victim of police brutality on the review board? Surely that would be similarly beneficial?

BurningFrog 3y ago
I get your point, but I think some kind of civil rights lawyer would be better than some beaten up criminal.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  Not everyone who has been a victim of police violence is a criminal.
- mrgoldenbrown 3y ago
  Yikes. Getting beat up by the police doesn't make you a criminal.

jasonlotito 3y ago

I don't know what you are talking about. The text is very clear on this. 30.61 Establishment of civilian oversight boards. (1) A county sheriff may establish a civilian oversight board to review the policies and procedures of his or her office and its subdivisions. (2) The board must be composed of at least three and up to seven members appointed by the sheriff, one of which shall be a retired law enforcement officer. They can appoint everyone on it. This is something setup by the sheriff, and the sheriff controls the appointments. They don't have ot appoint all the people, but they can. Which means the original comment still stands. > Having a retired cop in the room who understands police work sounds pretty sensible to me. That doesn't mean they have to be on the board. You can easily bring cops in when needed.

BurningFrog 3y ago
OK, that's quite clear. The article was less so. > That doesn't mean they have to be on the board. You can easily bring cops in when needed. The experience from Oakland/SF is that the review boards gets controlled by anti police activist who make policing near impossible.
- klyrs 3y ago
  I'm told that the key to good governance is gridlock, checks and balances.