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> Some of them end up concluding it's all a cynical manipulative scam, and everybody else is the same as themselves except absurdly dedicated to keeping up the
by sangnoir 3y ago
> Some of them end up concluding it's all a cynical manipulative scam, and everybody else is the same as themselves except absurdly dedicated to keeping up the fiction.
See most people who use the phrase "virtue-signaling" pejoratively.
- hamandcheese 3y agoI think most behaviors in both corporate and actual politics are pretty much that of psychopaths. I don't believe this is true in general. Am I the psychopath?
- sangnoir 3y agoIf you cynically believe no one ever is truly empathetic towards an outgroup, or can hold altruistic values on the basis that you yourself do not, then I think it's a sign of something - perhaps not rising to the level of psychopathy - but it certainly shows a lack of imagination.
- strken 3y agoI use the phrase virtue signalling pejoratively to refer to things like https://www.shell.com/sustainability/nature.html https://www.shell.com/sustainability/nature.html. It's precisely because of the existence of real virtue that virtue signalling is able to be differentiated.
- sangnoir 3y agoI suppose I should have specified when the pejorative is directed towards individuals. Companies are amoral, and have no values by definition.
- SilasX 3y agoSo then it sounds like you agree that an identifiable subset of advocacy is only faking virtue, you just disagree with the scammers on which subset that is.
- sangnoir 3y agoI do not agree. Companies have always done brand advertising - Marlboro cigarettes didn't truly care about independence, ruggedness or cowboys - they just wanted to be associated with those themes to sell more product - hence the "Marlboro Man". Clint Eastwood, on the other had, seems to personally buy into that image in earnest - so Clint Eastwood doesn't "virtue-signal" about ruggedness and the old west and anyone who accuses[1] him of that is doing so in bad faith. The culture warriors pretend companies pandering is new, and they term the branding/pandering they don't like "virtue-signalling" 1. He has some pretty strong opinions on who ought to be in westerns that I believe are misguided. My disagreeing wirh him doesn't mean he is insincere/virtue-signaling to the Country-music-listening demographic.
- SilasX 3y agoOkay sure. I’ll grant you that calling Clint Eastwood “virtue signaling” is misguided. But you were criticizing the use of the term in general, including for calling out ineffective actions that accomplish nothing substantive but make a brand look good. So you just moved the goalposts, if that matters to you.
- anticensor 3y agoCompanies tend to be amoral, but nothing precludes from codifying a set of morals in their documents.
- SilasX 3y ago“Virtue signaling” absolutely designates a natural, useful category that, in no way, rejects the need for real virtue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23474142 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23474142