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Its funny how you can't work for a secure government agency if you can't get clearance, and that a primary litmus test for clearance is how much debt you are in

Its funny how you can't work for a secure government agency if you can't get clearance, and that a primary litmus test for clearance is how much debt you are in. (AKA how easy you are to bribe). But then for huge swaths of our infrastructure we have privatized it and left it in the hands of minimum wage employees who probably have auto and student debt and can be bribed for pittances.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Login.gov is a thing (and over 300 federal agencies use it as their idp as of this comment). USPS provided identity proofing in person for it. All federal gov agencies are moving towards it. The "right" way would be a national smart card ID system like Estonia has (built on cryptographic primitives), but you have a cohort of crazies who think it's the "mark of the beast" and other wild tales. So, we walk when we could run. This problem is at the people/policy OSI layer. The Defense Dept already does this: CAC/common access cards [1]. Create a civilian root and do it already. A PIV/CAC can also be used as an auth factor with Login.gov [2]. [1] https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ [2] https://www.login.gov/help/get-started/authentication-methods/ https://www.login.gov/help/get-started/authentication-method... (Physical PIV (personal identity verification) cards or CACs (common access cards) are secure options for federal government employees and military personnel. These cards, with encrypted chip technology, are resistant to phishing and difficult to hack if stolen.)
- throw7 2y ago
  Papers Please.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    This is a tired argument. If you want better governance, it's a political problem, not a tech problem. "Papers Please" exists today due to a lack of law enforcement oversight and current statute [1]. A properly functioning national ID system and infrastructure doesn't change that. The databases already exist [2] [3] [4] [5]; because you do not have the physical card does not mean you don't live this reality today. On the contrary, you already don't have the privacy you think you have, without any of the quality of life improvements a national ID card would provide. > CBP has successfully implemented facial biometrics into the entry processes at all international airports, known as Simplified Arrival, and into the exit processes at 49 airport locations. CBP also expanded facial biometrics at 39 seaports and all pedestrian lanes at both Southwest Border and the Northern Border ports of entry. > To date, CBP has processed more than 490 million travelers using biometric facial comparison technology and prevented more than 1,900 impostors from entry to the U.S. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes [2] https://www.dhs.gov/biometrics https://www.dhs.gov/biometrics [3] https://www.tsa.gov/biometrics-technology/evaluating-facial-identification-technology https://www.tsa.gov/biometrics-technology/evaluating-facial-... [4] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/biometrics/airports https://www.cbp.gov/travel/biometrics/airports [5] https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    This is why the US will never have functioning anything. People just immediately leap to why it's going to lead to dystopia.
    - jfengel 2y ago
      Unfortunately that was literally true from the beginning. Much of the US Constitution is devoted to separation of powers. But the powers are so separated that it's practically impossible to do anything. Our checks and balances are badly overbalanced. The government persists because the executive branch takes a lot on itself. The Supreme Court is currently deciding that this may be too much overreach, and the government will grind completely to a halt.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    We already have that and have for a long time, it’s just more way time-wasting and far less secure than it could be.
  - redserk 2y ago
    This is a silly retort. We already have multiple identity systems in the US: - Social Security - Passports - NAPHSIS - Most states' ID systems using Real ID w/ SPEXS - The DoD's ID card system
- fishpen0 2y ago
  I love me some ID.me and think every bank and financial institution should be required to use it. It goes so far beyond to do good multi-factor auth and even accounts for the un-homed and un-phoned in their multifactor. Thousands of people can't bank or use many services because they can't get a phone number, but they can use id.me at a library or other public computer with few issues just having an old offline phone running an authenticator Edit: TIL login.gov is the new hotness
  - SpaceManNabs 2y ago
    Is Id.me and login.gov the same thing?
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      ID.me is a for profit private provider of identity proofing services. Login.gov is provided by the US General Services Administration. All federal agencies are moving to Login.gov. IRS is one of the last digital services that will move. There were some congressional hearings on ID.me, due to distorting the truth. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30430851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30430851 ("HN: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool (Feb 2022)") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39691325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39691325 (a previous comment I wrote on the topic) https://cyberscoop.com/idme-irs-identity-verification-congress/ https://cyberscoop.com/idme-irs-identity-verification-congre... ("ID.me misled IRS on processing times for identity verification, congressional investigators found") https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-ceo-backtracks-on-claims-company-doesnt-use-powerful-facial-recognition-tech/ https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-ceo-backtracks-on-claims-compan... ("ID.me CEO backtracks on claims company doesn’t use powerful facial recognition tech") https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-aclu-oregon-states-messaging-facial-recognition/ https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-aclu-oregon-states-messaging-fa... ("Documents shed light on ID.me’s messaging to states about powerful facial recognition tech") https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/id-me-made-baseless-pandemic-fraud-claims-to-win-contracts-congress-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/id-me-made-basel... ("ID.me lied to IRS about unemployment fraud, average wait times, House Dems say")
  - 2y ago
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  > mark of the beast what bothers me the most about unfalsifiable predictions is that their predictive quality can only be retroactively applied, undermining its ability to be predictive at all it relies on total ignorance of everything prior that fit, and other catastrophes that also looked like the “end times” how was world war I not? everyone dying of mustard gas followed by famine, plague. world war II? the year 536? other maladies in other countries? for many people it was the end time because their entire family and culture were killed and wiped out I wonder if America will shake its Evangelical death cult. People are becoming unaffiliated with religion here but I feel like the mysticism is ingrained into the culture either way for another generation or two
  - ImAnAmateur 2y ago
    Talking about it being the "mark of the beast" is a strawman. What you should talk about instead to win support among those same groups of people is to explain how it isn't/wouldn't be a means of government abuse. They're worried about it backdooring personal financial freedom the same way you would worry about the government backdooring encryption.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      It’s not a strawman if thats exactly what the people being referred to will say. But semantics aside, I agree that addressing their actual concerns is more productive. And there is no way to guarantee that.
      - ImAnAmateur 2y ago
        You're right about it not being a strawman. I used the wrong word.
jimbob45 2y ago
a primary litmus test for clearance is how much debt you are in As someone on the outside, I'm curious if that's true. I've never applied for clearance but I was always under the impression that it was more about how many people could vouch for you. Is it true that it actually just comes down to your bank account?
- fishpen0 2y ago
  There are a handful of key litmus tests that are part of the background check. If you are/were a felon, If you lie at all during the check, If you are in extreme debt, If they find public record of you being anti-american, If you fail a drug test. These all come up during the screening interviews of your peers, family, and coworkers. I have done about a half dozen or so of these for former peers, friends, and colleagues who have moved on to do public sector or join private military companies that needed clearance.
- ZekeSulastin 2y ago
  You can read clearance hearing/appeal decisions for contractors[1] to see some of what goes into it. On the money part specifically it’s less the raw status of your bank account and more how you’re handling debt and delinquency if at all. On a topical note, a not-uncommon issue is failing to pay income tax or file a tax return :p the result of those appeals depended on if and how the appellant tried to resolve that. [1] https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industrial-Security-Clearance-Decisions/ISCR-Hearing-Decisions/ https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industr...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Login.gov is a thing (and over 300 federal agencies use it as their idp as of this comment). USPS provided identity proofing in person for it. All federal gov agencies are moving towards it. The "right" way would be a national smart card ID system like Estonia has (built on cryptographic primitives), but you have a cohort of crazies who think it's the "mark of the beast" and other wild tales. So, we walk when we could run. This problem is at the people/policy OSI layer. The Defense Dept already does this: CAC/common access cards [1]. Create a civilian root and do it already. A PIV/CAC can also be used as an auth factor with Login.gov [2]. [1] https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ https://www.cac.mil/common-access-card/ [2] https://www.login.gov/help/get-started/authentication-methods/ https://www.login.gov/help/get-started/authentication-method... (Physical PIV (personal identity verification) cards or CACs (common access cards) are secure options for federal government employees and military personnel. These cards, with encrypted chip technology, are resistant to phishing and difficult to hack if stolen.)

throw7 2y ago
Papers Please.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  This is a tired argument. If you want better governance, it's a political problem, not a tech problem. "Papers Please" exists today due to a lack of law enforcement oversight and current statute [1]. A properly functioning national ID system and infrastructure doesn't change that. The databases already exist [2] [3] [4] [5]; because you do not have the physical card does not mean you don't live this reality today. On the contrary, you already don't have the privacy you think you have, without any of the quality of life improvements a national ID card would provide. > CBP has successfully implemented facial biometrics into the entry processes at all international airports, known as Simplified Arrival, and into the exit processes at 49 airport locations. CBP also expanded facial biometrics at 39 seaports and all pedestrian lanes at both Southwest Border and the Northern Border ports of entry. > To date, CBP has processed more than 490 million travelers using biometric facial comparison technology and prevented more than 1,900 impostors from entry to the U.S. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes [2] https://www.dhs.gov/biometrics https://www.dhs.gov/biometrics [3] https://www.tsa.gov/biometrics-technology/evaluating-facial-identification-technology https://www.tsa.gov/biometrics-technology/evaluating-facial-... [4] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/biometrics/airports https://www.cbp.gov/travel/biometrics/airports [5] https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs
- BadHumans 2y ago
  This is why the US will never have functioning anything. People just immediately leap to why it's going to lead to dystopia.
  - jfengel 2y ago
    Unfortunately that was literally true from the beginning. Much of the US Constitution is devoted to separation of powers. But the powers are so separated that it's practically impossible to do anything. Our checks and balances are badly overbalanced. The government persists because the executive branch takes a lot on itself. The Supreme Court is currently deciding that this may be too much overreach, and the government will grind completely to a halt.
- vundercind 2y ago
  We already have that and have for a long time, it’s just more way time-wasting and far less secure than it could be.
- redserk 2y ago
  This is a silly retort. We already have multiple identity systems in the US: - Social Security - Passports - NAPHSIS - Most states' ID systems using Real ID w/ SPEXS - The DoD's ID card system
fishpen0 2y ago
I love me some ID.me and think every bank and financial institution should be required to use it. It goes so far beyond to do good multi-factor auth and even accounts for the un-homed and un-phoned in their multifactor. Thousands of people can't bank or use many services because they can't get a phone number, but they can use id.me at a library or other public computer with few issues just having an old offline phone running an authenticator Edit: TIL login.gov is the new hotness
- SpaceManNabs 2y ago
  Is Id.me and login.gov the same thing?
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    ID.me is a for profit private provider of identity proofing services. Login.gov is provided by the US General Services Administration. All federal agencies are moving to Login.gov. IRS is one of the last digital services that will move. There were some congressional hearings on ID.me, due to distorting the truth. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30430851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30430851 ("HN: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool (Feb 2022)") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39691325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39691325 (a previous comment I wrote on the topic) https://cyberscoop.com/idme-irs-identity-verification-congress/ https://cyberscoop.com/idme-irs-identity-verification-congre... ("ID.me misled IRS on processing times for identity verification, congressional investigators found") https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-ceo-backtracks-on-claims-company-doesnt-use-powerful-facial-recognition-tech/ https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-ceo-backtracks-on-claims-compan... ("ID.me CEO backtracks on claims company doesn’t use powerful facial recognition tech") https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-aclu-oregon-states-messaging-facial-recognition/ https://cyberscoop.com/id-me-aclu-oregon-states-messaging-fa... ("Documents shed light on ID.me’s messaging to states about powerful facial recognition tech") https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/id-me-made-baseless-pandemic-fraud-claims-to-win-contracts-congress-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/11/id-me-made-basel... ("ID.me lied to IRS about unemployment fraud, average wait times, House Dems say")
- 2y ago
yieldcrv 2y ago
> mark of the beast what bothers me the most about unfalsifiable predictions is that their predictive quality can only be retroactively applied, undermining its ability to be predictive at all it relies on total ignorance of everything prior that fit, and other catastrophes that also looked like the “end times” how was world war I not? everyone dying of mustard gas followed by famine, plague. world war II? the year 536? other maladies in other countries? for many people it was the end time because their entire family and culture were killed and wiped out I wonder if America will shake its Evangelical death cult. People are becoming unaffiliated with religion here but I feel like the mysticism is ingrained into the culture either way for another generation or two
- ImAnAmateur 2y ago
  Talking about it being the "mark of the beast" is a strawman. What you should talk about instead to win support among those same groups of people is to explain how it isn't/wouldn't be a means of government abuse. They're worried about it backdooring personal financial freedom the same way you would worry about the government backdooring encryption.
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    It’s not a strawman if thats exactly what the people being referred to will say. But semantics aside, I agree that addressing their actual concerns is more productive. And there is no way to guarantee that.
    - ImAnAmateur 2y ago
      You're right about it not being a strawman. I used the wrong word.

jimbob45 2y ago

a primary litmus test for clearance is how much debt you are in As someone on the outside, I'm curious if that's true. I've never applied for clearance but I was always under the impression that it was more about how many people could vouch for you. Is it true that it actually just comes down to your bank account?

fishpen0 2y ago
There are a handful of key litmus tests that are part of the background check. If you are/were a felon, If you lie at all during the check, If you are in extreme debt, If they find public record of you being anti-american, If you fail a drug test. These all come up during the screening interviews of your peers, family, and coworkers. I have done about a half dozen or so of these for former peers, friends, and colleagues who have moved on to do public sector or join private military companies that needed clearance.
ZekeSulastin 2y ago
You can read clearance hearing/appeal decisions for contractors[1] to see some of what goes into it. On the money part specifically it’s less the raw status of your bank account and more how you’re handling debt and delinquency if at all. On a topical note, a not-uncommon issue is failing to pay income tax or file a tax return :p the result of those appeals depended on if and how the appellant tried to resolve that. [1] https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industrial-Security-Clearance-Decisions/ISCR-Hearing-Decisions/ https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industr...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]