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Antitrust First sale doctrine Telecom Airlines Food safety Transportation safety Environmental safety Fish and wildlife

by ethbr1 3y ago

janice1999 3y ago
Occupational Safety and Health laws
EA-3167 3y ago
Labor laws are a huge example too, we didn't emerge from an age of child labor into the modern era because of regulatory capture.
from-nibly 3y ago
Any links to the cases of the following and how they weren't part of regulatory capture?
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Is there a specific one you're interested in?
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
The old antitrust laws weren't, but they've been narrowed so much over time through court decisions that they're no longer effective, as evidenced by all the industries dominated by less than a dozen major companies. The first sale doctrine is the thing the industry keeps chipping away at with anti-circumvention laws and ebook licensing etc. Telecoms are probably the textbook case of regulatory capture. You should be able to start a phone company by installing Asterisk on a VM or installing a cellular base station on your roof and filing a form to get permanently assigned a block of phone numbers for a nominal one-time fee. Needless to say that you can't and the incumbents like it that way. A lot of aspects of airlines are actually not that heavily regulated, it generally operates as a fairly competitive market. The parts that are the most regulated are the parts where the 737 MAX kind of things are happening, and then we're back to "incumbents like the rules that way because they make it cost prohibitive for smaller competitors to exist." Food safety is the thing where this happens: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298116 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=529811... Also, things involving Monsanto in general. Transportation safety is pretty thoroughly captured by automakers. Tens of thousands of people die in car crashes every year, it's one of the leading causes of death, and we make dumb responses, like fining people who don't wear seat belts (no effect on automakers) instead of actually effective responses like building more housing near jobs so people drive fewer miles or don't need as many cars (obvious negative effect on automakers). Environmental safety rules don't seem to apply to oil companies. Fish and wildlife rules are commonly structured to give large incumbents the right to harvest the disproportionate share. Also, this is one of the cases where the industry wants the rules, because over-fishing is a harm to them rather than an externality their industry imposes on someone else.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  > The old antitrust laws weren't, but they've been narrowed so much over time through court decisions that they're no longer effective, as evidenced by all the industries dominated by less than a dozen major companies. That's endemic to new markets though. The internet crushed incumbents, the winner of which then became incumbents, and so the cycle continues. One could argue that this is exactly the point in the cycle when antitrust should start being used. Any earlier and you preemptively regulate. > The first sale doctrine is the thing the industry keeps chipping away at with anti-circumvention laws and ebook licensing etc. I'd have gone with rent-instead-of-own and converting purchases into platform subscriptions. But point being that the original law was against the wishes of the largest players in that sector. > Telecoms are probably the textbook case of regulatory capture. I'm sure old ATT would have something to say about that... > A lot of aspects of airlines are actually not that heavily regulated, it generally operates as a fairly competitive market. The explicit deregulation of the carrier market and substitution of new rules promoting competition. I'd say the incumbents were pretty upset about that, considering Southwest spent the first 3 years of its existence in court... > Food safety is the thing where this happens: A pile of examples does not an argument make. Otherwise, I'd just be able to link here and call it a day: https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety... What's your argument? > Transportation safety is pretty thoroughly captured by automakers. [...] and we make dumb responses [...] instead of actually effective responses like building more housing near jobs so people drive fewer miles or don't need as many cars (obvious negative effect on automakers). You're suggesting the NHTSA solve the US housing market? That's a bit outside their remit, which is ensuring that vehicles pass these standards: https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/statutory-authorities https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/statutory-authorities And let me tell you, automakers aren't thrilled about CAFE standards... > Environmental safety rules don't seem to apply to oil companies. Citation needed. If your point is that the EPA is under-matched against some of the largest companies on the planet, yes. But to say say they get a free pass is simply wrong. There are multiple court cases where the EPA is currently fighting to uphold and enforce regulation. In addition to new rules being enacted. E.g. https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-12/epas-final-rule-for-oil-and-gas-operations.-overview-fact-sheet.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-12/epas-fina... > Fish and wildlife rules are commonly structured to give large incumbents the right to harvest the disproportionate share. That's called grandfathering, and it exists because there's a realpolitik recognition that if you didn't give the current incumbents a juicy cut of the quota they'd just ignore it. That's the way the world works. > Also, this is one of the cases where the industry wants the rules, because over-fishing is a harm to them Ha! If there weren't fishing quotas, companies would happily deplete fisheries as quickly as they could get them on the boat. Industrial fishing doesn't care about long term.

Antitrust First sale doctrine Telecom Airlines Food safety Transportation safety Environmental safety Fish and wildlife

by ethbr1 3y ago

Antitrust First sale doctrine Telecom Airlines Food safety Transportation safety Environmental safety Fish and wildlife

janice1999 3y ago

Occupational Safety and Health laws

EA-3167 3y ago

Labor laws are a huge example too, we didn't emerge from an age of child labor into the modern era because of regulatory capture.

from-nibly 3y ago

Any links to the cases of the following and how they weren't part of regulatory capture?

ethbr1 3y ago
Is there a specific one you're interested in?

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

The old antitrust laws weren't, but they've been narrowed so much over time through court decisions that they're no longer effective, as evidenced by all the industries dominated by less than a dozen major companies. The first sale doctrine is the thing the industry keeps chipping away at with anti-circumvention laws and ebook licensing etc. Telecoms are probably the textbook case of regulatory capture. You should be able to start a phone company by installing Asterisk on a VM or installing a cellular base station on your roof and filing a form to get permanently assigned a block of phone numbers for a nominal one-time fee. Needless to say that you can't and the incumbents like it that way. A lot of aspects of airlines are actually not that heavily regulated, it generally operates as a fairly competitive market. The parts that are the most regulated are the parts where the 737 MAX kind of things are happening, and then we're back to "incumbents like the rules that way because they make it cost prohibitive for smaller competitors to exist." Food safety is the thing where this happens: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5298116 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=529811... Also, things involving Monsanto in general. Transportation safety is pretty thoroughly captured by automakers. Tens of thousands of people die in car crashes every year, it's one of the leading causes of death, and we make dumb responses, like fining people who don't wear seat belts (no effect on automakers) instead of actually effective responses like building more housing near jobs so people drive fewer miles or don't need as many cars (obvious negative effect on automakers). Environmental safety rules don't seem to apply to oil companies. Fish and wildlife rules are commonly structured to give large incumbents the right to harvest the disproportionate share. Also, this is one of the cases where the industry wants the rules, because over-fishing is a harm to them rather than an externality their industry imposes on someone else.

ethbr1 3y ago
> The old antitrust laws weren't, but they've been narrowed so much over time through court decisions that they're no longer effective, as evidenced by all the industries dominated by less than a dozen major companies. That's endemic to new markets though. The internet crushed incumbents, the winner of which then became incumbents, and so the cycle continues. One could argue that this is exactly the point in the cycle when antitrust should start being used. Any earlier and you preemptively regulate. > The first sale doctrine is the thing the industry keeps chipping away at with anti-circumvention laws and ebook licensing etc. I'd have gone with rent-instead-of-own and converting purchases into platform subscriptions. But point being that the original law was against the wishes of the largest players in that sector. > Telecoms are probably the textbook case of regulatory capture. I'm sure old ATT would have something to say about that... > A lot of aspects of airlines are actually not that heavily regulated, it generally operates as a fairly competitive market. The explicit deregulation of the carrier market and substitution of new rules promoting competition. I'd say the incumbents were pretty upset about that, considering Southwest spent the first 3 years of its existence in court... > Food safety is the thing where this happens: A pile of examples does not an argument make. Otherwise, I'd just be able to link here and call it a day: https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety... What's your argument? > Transportation safety is pretty thoroughly captured by automakers. [...] and we make dumb responses [...] instead of actually effective responses like building more housing near jobs so people drive fewer miles or don't need as many cars (obvious negative effect on automakers). You're suggesting the NHTSA solve the US housing market? That's a bit outside their remit, which is ensuring that vehicles pass these standards: https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/statutory-authorities https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/statutory-authorities And let me tell you, automakers aren't thrilled about CAFE standards... > Environmental safety rules don't seem to apply to oil companies. Citation needed. If your point is that the EPA is under-matched against some of the largest companies on the planet, yes. But to say say they get a free pass is simply wrong. There are multiple court cases where the EPA is currently fighting to uphold and enforce regulation. In addition to new rules being enacted. E.g. https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-12/epas-final-rule-for-oil-and-gas-operations.-overview-fact-sheet.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-12/epas-fina... > Fish and wildlife rules are commonly structured to give large incumbents the right to harvest the disproportionate share. That's called grandfathering, and it exists because there's a realpolitik recognition that if you didn't give the current incumbents a juicy cut of the quota they'd just ignore it. That's the way the world works. > Also, this is one of the cases where the industry wants the rules, because over-fishing is a harm to them Ha! If there weren't fishing quotas, companies would happily deplete fisheries as quickly as they could get them on the boat. Industrial fishing doesn't care about long term.