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>What are you actually suggesting here? I'm just suggesting that the actions within the article make the situation worse rather than better. As you alluded to,

by bumby 3y ago

>What are you actually suggesting here? I'm just suggesting that the actions within the article make the situation worse rather than better. As you alluded to, there are other, more fruitful ways to attack this problem, usually related to systemic changes. I do think his actions count as vigilantism since that term is applied to actions explicitly intended to prevent crimes. From TFA "those who aim to waste scammers' time otherwise spent ripping off innocent victims."

tombert 3y ago
Sure, no argument with this: it would way better to get authorities involved. I agree with your sibling comment that it would be probably fruitful to increase some of the regulations around crypto. In fact that would probably help with a lot of domestic crimes as well... But just to kind of play devil's advocate; lets suppose we educate people about this stuff, and it's extremely successful, no grandpa is selling his house to buy Google Play cards because we were so good at communication. Wouldn't those same people get beaten (or worse) in the same way that you're suggesting with Kitboga?
- bumby 3y ago
  >Wouldn't those same people get beaten (or worse) in the same way that you're suggesting with Kitboga? I think this underscores the importance of looking at this systemically. It's easy to think this is just a story about phone scams. Looking at the bigger picture, though, it's really about human trafficking. To directly answer your question, if we were able to solve the root human trafficking issue that allows these criminal industries to be profitable, then we'd prevent those beatings in the first place. In fact, some people running these organizations are already looking at using AI to run the scams rather than humans. Under that scenario, your educational outreach would be a huge success, but it does require working at the root problem first.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I'm all for increasing education on this, and I do think that would have some value, though I'm not 100% sure what this would look like. My mother-in-law's husband has fallen for these gift card scams multiple times, losing thousands of dollars, even after I've tried showing him some obvious and less-obvious warning signs [1]. Some people are just really gullible, for whatever reason, and I'm not 100% sure that education will actually help them. I actually don't think we disagree very much about the actual solution to the problem. This is definitely bigger than a few Youtubers making scambaiting videos. It's going to be a brave new world with AI voices getting better and better, and I think law enforcement agencies are going to be pretty proactive. [1] e.g. the IRS will never ask for payments in gift cards or cryptocurrency, neither will the police, don't just let anyone connect to your computer with Teamviewer or Anydesk, if you're going to be arrested they probably aren't going to do it over the phone, etc.

by bumby 3y ago

tombert 3y ago

Sure, no argument with this: it would way better to get authorities involved. I agree with your sibling comment that it would be probably fruitful to increase some of the regulations around crypto. In fact that would probably help with a lot of domestic crimes as well... But just to kind of play devil's advocate; lets suppose we educate people about this stuff, and it's extremely successful, no grandpa is selling his house to buy Google Play cards because we were so good at communication. Wouldn't those same people get beaten (or worse) in the same way that you're suggesting with Kitboga?

bumby 3y ago
>Wouldn't those same people get beaten (or worse) in the same way that you're suggesting with Kitboga? I think this underscores the importance of looking at this systemically. It's easy to think this is just a story about phone scams. Looking at the bigger picture, though, it's really about human trafficking. To directly answer your question, if we were able to solve the root human trafficking issue that allows these criminal industries to be profitable, then we'd prevent those beatings in the first place. In fact, some people running these organizations are already looking at using AI to run the scams rather than humans. Under that scenario, your educational outreach would be a huge success, but it does require working at the root problem first.
- tombert 3y ago
  I'm all for increasing education on this, and I do think that would have some value, though I'm not 100% sure what this would look like. My mother-in-law's husband has fallen for these gift card scams multiple times, losing thousands of dollars, even after I've tried showing him some obvious and less-obvious warning signs [1]. Some people are just really gullible, for whatever reason, and I'm not 100% sure that education will actually help them. I actually don't think we disagree very much about the actual solution to the problem. This is definitely bigger than a few Youtubers making scambaiting videos. It's going to be a brave new world with AI voices getting better and better, and I think law enforcement agencies are going to be pretty proactive. [1] e.g. the IRS will never ask for payments in gift cards or cryptocurrency, neither will the police, don't just let anyone connect to your computer with Teamviewer or Anydesk, if you're going to be arrested they probably aren't going to do it over the phone, etc.