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> Business may be competitive, but there are rules and it is not war. To Eddie, business was not only war, but war with the only rules being do not get caught i

> Business may be competitive, but there are rules and it is not war. To Eddie, business was not only war, but war with the only rules being do not get caught if you can and make all the money you can. And trust no one. Eh, what? Don't most rich self-made people, and people at the top of big corps, think this way? (Not all, but a good-size majority?) I can assure you that the majority of such people worry only about the appearance of honesty and morality, not the substance. The 'elderly businessman' he quotes in the next paragraph has it pretty much right. We live in Hobbes' world. Or rather, we created it, by allowing such people to gain power and influence, and even seeing it as a good. (Btw, I'm not defending the subject's behavior, he clearly deserves a long spell in jail and needs to make right what he's done. But his argument that "everyone does it" isn't too far from the truth.)

sanderjd 3y ago
> Don't most rich self-made people, and people at the top of big corps, think this way? (Not all, but a good-size majority?) It's very hard to know! (It's not like you can send a survey around and ask.) But for what it's worth, I think this is overblown. It's not that it's not a thing. But I don't think it's as much of a thing as people tend to think. I think most people, including fancy business people, want to be the hero of their own story, and that a smaller-than-imagined proportion of people find "the only rules [are] do not get caught if you can and make all the money you can[, a]nd trust no one" to be compatible with their own heroes journey.
- int_19h 3y ago
  Those two are not contradictory, though. One way to be a hero of one's own story is to demote everyone else to NPC. And once you do that, well, you're the hero, on some clearly important quest ... and they're just an NPC, they don't really matter, so what's the big deal about sticking to the rules regarding them? Especially if nobody finds out?
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    I covered this. I think that: > a smaller-than-imagined proportion of people find "the only rules [are] do not get caught if you can and make all the money you can[, a]nd trust no one" to be compatible with their own heroes journey. I just truly don't think this sort of thing is as common as the cynical-people-on-the-internet crowd seems to take it as obvious fact to be. I think it's more often reached for as a convenient simpler explanation for human behavior that is actually more complex and nuanced.
Rury 3y ago
Right, but I wouldn't quite say that we created Hobbes' world. It's rather a reality born from the simple nature of things. Any reality in which people may differ in what it is they want/will, and not everyone can always have their way... is a Hobbesian world.

sanderjd 3y ago

> Don't most rich self-made people, and people at the top of big corps, think this way? (Not all, but a good-size majority?) It's very hard to know! (It's not like you can send a survey around and ask.) But for what it's worth, I think this is overblown. It's not that it's not a thing. But I don't think it's as much of a thing as people tend to think. I think most people, including fancy business people, want to be the hero of their own story, and that a smaller-than-imagined proportion of people find "the only rules [are] do not get caught if you can and make all the money you can[, a]nd trust no one" to be compatible with their own heroes journey.

int_19h 3y ago
Those two are not contradictory, though. One way to be a hero of one's own story is to demote everyone else to NPC. And once you do that, well, you're the hero, on some clearly important quest ... and they're just an NPC, they don't really matter, so what's the big deal about sticking to the rules regarding them? Especially if nobody finds out?
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I covered this. I think that: > a smaller-than-imagined proportion of people find "the only rules [are] do not get caught if you can and make all the money you can[, a]nd trust no one" to be compatible with their own heroes journey. I just truly don't think this sort of thing is as common as the cynical-people-on-the-internet crowd seems to take it as obvious fact to be. I think it's more often reached for as a convenient simpler explanation for human behavior that is actually more complex and nuanced.

Rury 3y ago

Right, but I wouldn't quite say that we created Hobbes' world. It's rather a reality born from the simple nature of things. Any reality in which people may differ in what it is they want/will, and not everyone can always have their way... is a Hobbesian world.