5 ms·

A criminal background check is more investigation than is currently done. That’s usually only done for multi-year visas.

ramesh31 2y ago
[flagged]
- rayiner 2y ago
  This attitude displays a fundamental lack of understanding of human society. People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. There are perfectly good reasons why the people in new country wouldn’t want to live with those changes. For example, my parents come from Bangladesh, which was disarmed by the British. They cannot understand—for deeply cultural reasons—why anyone would need a gun. My wife’s parents, meanwhile, come from a frontier tradition, where you need guns to protect yourself from mountain lions or in places far from the reach of the law. Insofar as everyone votes their culture, why shouldn’t the people who are already here be able to say “we don’t have anything against your culture, but we prefer ours, and we don’t want you coming her and changing our society?”
  - ramesh31 2y ago
    > People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. Yes, this is indeed the precise excuse given for every single wave of immigration in US history for hundreds of years. Yet somehow we're still here, leading the world economically, politically, and culturally, watching as the frightened closed societies of Europe and Asia circle their wagons and fade into oblivion.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - triceratops 2y ago
    > Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country Citation needed. Especially for the "generations". From your own example, you seem pretty well-integrated into mainstream American culture only one generation down. My personal thesis is that some countries are really good at absorbing and integrating immigrants, and they see the benefits. America is exceptional at it, possibly the best in the world.
    - skissane 2y ago
      > America is exceptional at it, possibly the best in the world. Is the US actually better at absorbing immigrants than Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand? I’m unconvinced.
    - xyzzyz 2y ago
      For citation, I recommend a book by Garret Jones, “The Culture Transplant: How Migrants Make the Economies They Move To a Lot Like the Ones They Left” https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Transplant-Migrants-Make-Economies/dp/1503632946 https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Transplant-Migrants-Make-Econ...
      - forgingahead 2y ago
        Hilarious that the person you're replying to had their smug reddit "CITATION NEEDED" gotcha-attempt, and when you and rayiner provided some, I see nothing but downvotes. I can hear the reeee'ing from here.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      > Citation needed. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016517652300304X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01651... ("Under this model, immigrants do not fully assimilate; rather, they transmit certain old-country values and behaviors to their descendants in the new country. Empirical support for culture transplant varies depending on the particular trait in question. Social trust, for example, shows strong evidence of transplant over different time periods and in many different countries.... the results suggest that a 'transplant' does occur in the U.S., as a strong relationship exists between individual savings and ancestral savings rates. The relationship is robust to a variety of specifications. In a midrange estimate, a 1 percentage-point increase in ancestral-country savings rates is associated with a 1 percent increase in retirement savings among second-generation immigrants.") > From your own example, you seem pretty well-integrated into mainstream American culture only one generation down. Only superficially, despite coming from a very westernized family in a former british colony. There's an enormous gap in "deep culture" between me and my wife's family and my wife and her family (who came here before the American revolution from Britain). You think you're well-assimilated until your kid wants to "express themselves" and you realize you abhor how Americans raise their kids, interact with their families, view the world, etc.
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    You should watch Gangs of New York. It highlights how the original white anglo saxon Protestant population of americans had the same fears as you mentioned with catholic italian and irishmen coming in and changing the culture of the country. It turns out, everyones kids assimilate into american culture just fine. Today you can’t tell whether a kid came from an anglo or irish or italian background. In some parts of the US that is already true for latinos, who are now the dominant population in many american cities, and whose youth population engaged with the same things as any other american youth population today.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      > It highlights how the original white anglo saxon Protestant population of americans had the same fears as you mentioned with catholic italian and irishmen coming in and changing the culture of the country. But they did change it, into something completely different. America was supposed to be like what you might still see in some small New England towns, with decentralized power and an actively engaged, self-governing citizenry. If you were someone in 1920 who thought WASP culture was a good thing, your fears were completely validated. That country doesn't exist anymore.
      - wmorgan 2y ago
        I live in one of those New England towns where everyone piles into the gym at the high school to argue about whether we really need a new fire engine. It’s not clear to me who you think lives here, but from what I can see it’s mostly Irish, Italian, Polish, and Indian. To meet someone whose four grandparents were born here is rare. Something like 30% of the population of Massachusetts was born in another country. Whatever else happened in history to make it this way, it sure wasn’t keeping out immigrants.
        rayiner 2y ago
        If you sort the states by percentage of British ancestry, it’s pretty much a list of places that are “the way the American republic was designed to be”: Utah, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon.
  - dctoedt 2y ago
    > People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. You've said that your wife's family has been in this country since before the American Revolution. So your kids aren't exclusively products of your (recent-immigrant) family's culture. > In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. That's how evolution works: Through the combined effects of variation — especially through mixing of genetic- and cultural traits via sexual reproduction — plus selection for that which provides an advantage in the relevant environment. (It's part of the Great Project of building a universe.) > There are perfectly good reasons why the people in new country wouldn’t want to live with those changes. Different people dislike a wide variety of changes. (We love novelty, we hate change.) Robert A. Heinlein said, "Never argue with the weather"; in the modern world, population migration falls into that category. Footnote: I'm re-reading David Halberstam's book The Best and the Brightest, about the origins of American involvement in the Vietnam War — which was a subject of not a little personal interest to me and my generation back then. It's saddening to read again how U.S. policymakers' insistence on unrealistic premises — rejecting knowledgeable advice from experienced Asia hands — led to delusions that we could interfere in a colonial war on the cheap. Modern global migration presents similar opportunities for policy f*k-ups.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      > If you imagine that y'all's kids are exclusively products of your immigrant family's "deep culture," then your wife and her family would doubtless like a word. The super-majority of every group still marries within their group, so our case is unusual. (My wife still has 7/8 British ancestry.) Our kids are a negotiated mix: Bangladeshi dad morality and career expectations, Oregonian mom austerity and disciplinary techniques. Regardless, my point is that they’re far from Oregonian. Folks in Eugene, OR probably wouldn’t want my daughter running the town. > In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. That's how evolution works — variation, plus selection for that which works, especially through mixing of genetic- and cultural traits via sexual reproduction. (It's part of the Great Project of building a universe.) I would characterize what’s happening to America as more like entropy. Or maybe “worse is better.” Regardless, I view society as democratic project, not a free market or evolutionary one. People get to design the kind of society they want to live in. And they should realize that who they invite to join that society has a big effect on that.
  - onetimeusename 2y ago
    Post WWII, imo, there is a view by the "public service" class that being anti-immigration, in the West only, is morally akin to Nazism. I don't feel like the US's immigration policy, official and unofficial, is really democratic. Especially over the last few years. It feels like it was crafted by judges, lawyers, and people with a vested interest in more immigration to achieve a certain outcome and that plan has worked tremendously well for them. I am not sure what the future will bring from this. It's probably unprecedented in history.

ramesh31 2y ago

[flagged]

rayiner 2y ago
This attitude displays a fundamental lack of understanding of human society. People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. There are perfectly good reasons why the people in new country wouldn’t want to live with those changes. For example, my parents come from Bangladesh, which was disarmed by the British. They cannot understand—for deeply cultural reasons—why anyone would need a gun. My wife’s parents, meanwhile, come from a frontier tradition, where you need guns to protect yourself from mountain lions or in places far from the reach of the law. Insofar as everyone votes their culture, why shouldn’t the people who are already here be able to say “we don’t have anything against your culture, but we prefer ours, and we don’t want you coming her and changing our society?”
- ramesh31 2y ago
  > People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. Yes, this is indeed the precise excuse given for every single wave of immigration in US history for hundreds of years. Yet somehow we're still here, leading the world economically, politically, and culturally, watching as the frightened closed societies of Europe and Asia circle their wagons and fade into oblivion.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- triceratops 2y ago
  > Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country Citation needed. Especially for the "generations". From your own example, you seem pretty well-integrated into mainstream American culture only one generation down. My personal thesis is that some countries are really good at absorbing and integrating immigrants, and they see the benefits. America is exceptional at it, possibly the best in the world.
  - skissane 2y ago
    > America is exceptional at it, possibly the best in the world. Is the US actually better at absorbing immigrants than Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand? I’m unconvinced.
  - xyzzyz 2y ago
    For citation, I recommend a book by Garret Jones, “The Culture Transplant: How Migrants Make the Economies They Move To a Lot Like the Ones They Left” https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Transplant-Migrants-Make-Economies/dp/1503632946 https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Transplant-Migrants-Make-Econ...
    - forgingahead 2y ago
      Hilarious that the person you're replying to had their smug reddit "CITATION NEEDED" gotcha-attempt, and when you and rayiner provided some, I see nothing but downvotes. I can hear the reeee'ing from here.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    > Citation needed. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016517652300304X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01651... ("Under this model, immigrants do not fully assimilate; rather, they transmit certain old-country values and behaviors to their descendants in the new country. Empirical support for culture transplant varies depending on the particular trait in question. Social trust, for example, shows strong evidence of transplant over different time periods and in many different countries.... the results suggest that a 'transplant' does occur in the U.S., as a strong relationship exists between individual savings and ancestral savings rates. The relationship is robust to a variety of specifications. In a midrange estimate, a 1 percentage-point increase in ancestral-country savings rates is associated with a 1 percent increase in retirement savings among second-generation immigrants.") > From your own example, you seem pretty well-integrated into mainstream American culture only one generation down. Only superficially, despite coming from a very westernized family in a former british colony. There's an enormous gap in "deep culture" between me and my wife's family and my wife and her family (who came here before the American revolution from Britain). You think you're well-assimilated until your kid wants to "express themselves" and you realize you abhor how Americans raise their kids, interact with their families, view the world, etc.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  You should watch Gangs of New York. It highlights how the original white anglo saxon Protestant population of americans had the same fears as you mentioned with catholic italian and irishmen coming in and changing the culture of the country. It turns out, everyones kids assimilate into american culture just fine. Today you can’t tell whether a kid came from an anglo or irish or italian background. In some parts of the US that is already true for latinos, who are now the dominant population in many american cities, and whose youth population engaged with the same things as any other american youth population today.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    > It highlights how the original white anglo saxon Protestant population of americans had the same fears as you mentioned with catholic italian and irishmen coming in and changing the culture of the country. But they did change it, into something completely different. America was supposed to be like what you might still see in some small New England towns, with decentralized power and an actively engaged, self-governing citizenry. If you were someone in 1920 who thought WASP culture was a good thing, your fears were completely validated. That country doesn't exist anymore.
    - wmorgan 2y ago
      I live in one of those New England towns where everyone piles into the gym at the high school to argue about whether we really need a new fire engine. It’s not clear to me who you think lives here, but from what I can see it’s mostly Irish, Italian, Polish, and Indian. To meet someone whose four grandparents were born here is rare. Something like 30% of the population of Massachusetts was born in another country. Whatever else happened in history to make it this way, it sure wasn’t keeping out immigrants.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        If you sort the states by percentage of British ancestry, it’s pretty much a list of places that are “the way the American republic was designed to be”: Utah, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon.
- dctoedt 2y ago
  > People from different cultures are different. Not because of race, but because of cultural socialization, which persists for generations even in a new host country. You've said that your wife's family has been in this country since before the American Revolution. So your kids aren't exclusively products of your (recent-immigrant) family's culture. > In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. That's how evolution works: Through the combined effects of variation — especially through mixing of genetic- and cultural traits via sexual reproduction — plus selection for that which provides an advantage in the relevant environment. (It's part of the Great Project of building a universe.) > There are perfectly good reasons why the people in new country wouldn’t want to live with those changes. Different people dislike a wide variety of changes. (We love novelty, we hate change.) Robert A. Heinlein said, "Never argue with the weather"; in the modern world, population migration falls into that category. Footnote: I'm re-reading David Halberstam's book The Best and the Brightest, about the origins of American involvement in the Vietnam War — which was a subject of not a little personal interest to me and my generation back then. It's saddening to read again how U.S. policymakers' insistence on unrealistic premises — rejecting knowledgeable advice from experienced Asia hands — led to delusions that we could interfere in a colonial war on the cheap. Modern global migration presents similar opportunities for policy f*k-ups.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    > If you imagine that y'all's kids are exclusively products of your immigrant family's "deep culture," then your wife and her family would doubtless like a word. The super-majority of every group still marries within their group, so our case is unusual. (My wife still has 7/8 British ancestry.) Our kids are a negotiated mix: Bangladeshi dad morality and career expectations, Oregonian mom austerity and disciplinary techniques. Regardless, my point is that they’re far from Oregonian. Folks in Eugene, OR probably wouldn’t want my daughter running the town. > In a democracy, those cultural differences will be reflected in the government and society of the new country. That's how evolution works — variation, plus selection for that which works, especially through mixing of genetic- and cultural traits via sexual reproduction. (It's part of the Great Project of building a universe.) I would characterize what’s happening to America as more like entropy. Or maybe “worse is better.” Regardless, I view society as democratic project, not a free market or evolutionary one. People get to design the kind of society they want to live in. And they should realize that who they invite to join that society has a big effect on that.
- onetimeusename 2y ago
  Post WWII, imo, there is a view by the "public service" class that being anti-immigration, in the West only, is morally akin to Nazism. I don't feel like the US's immigration policy, official and unofficial, is really democratic. Especially over the last few years. It feels like it was crafted by judges, lawyers, and people with a vested interest in more immigration to achieve a certain outcome and that plan has worked tremendously well for them. I am not sure what the future will bring from this. It's probably unprecedented in history.