4 ms·

The reason the plan always fails is because the actual secret plan is just to get an extra discount, the plan may succeed if Microsoft stop doing that...

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
That may win when the budget deadlines come. But underlying this was the European Union not liking being dependent upon the American monopoly of operating systems and other key software, particularly closed source proprietary American government controlled software. And really Linux is European software. They should have been doing this decades ago of course. I think everyone is looking around and seeing that the era of free trade, relative peace, and good relations based on trade is dead with the Ukraine war heralding a new age.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >And really Linux is European software. Excuse me, but WHAT?
  - justinclift 2y ago
    Interestingly, the wikipedia page for Linux Torvalds says he's "Finnish / American" rather than just Finnish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds So "European" probably has some validity through this chain, though "American" probably does too. :)
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      Firstly, Linus is an Finish-American citizen of born in a Swedish minority in Finland, living in the US, so how how would that make Linux in any way "European"? Even if he weren't a US citizen living in the US, it would still be hard to call Linux "European" due to the following point: Linux the project is a collaboration from contributors from across the world, so how would that make it "European"? Just because the project was started by an EU citizen in the EU over 3 decades ago, doesn't really give the EU claims of ownership over what is essentially a public open project, even if the EU were to somehow ever attempt to claim it as theirs.
      - vasac 2y ago
        Small nitpick - Linux was created in 1991, while the EEC was transformed into the EU in 1992 (effective 1993), and Finland became part of the EU in 1995.
      - swores 2y ago
        Companies like Facebook are global now, and we call them American because of where they were founded / where they are still HQ'd. Linux doesn't have a HQ or a stock market it's listed on, so isn't the place it was founded a reasonable choice if trying to describe it as anything other than "global"? Of course the EU can't claim to own it, just as they can't claim to own BMW if they chose to move all operations out of Europe, but we'd probably still call BMW a European / German company until it becomes established as being more to do with another single location rather than just all round the world.
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        There's a difference between something being "European" and something having started in Europe. Linux is not a private enterprise with an HQ in Europe so just because it started in Europe in the past, doesn't mean it's European today. Especially when the guy who started it all is now a US citizen living and working on the Linux kernel from the US with most of the funding for the contributions coming from US companies. So shouldn't it be American now?
  - AtlasBarfed 2y ago
    I suppose what I should have said is that Linux is much more European. KDE is DEFINITELY European. And as part of the KDE project came office applications and the once-web-browser Konqueror. Tim Berners-Lee and CERN were european, you can view the early internet as European even if TCPIP came from the US DARPA. Suse, one of the most important pre-ubuntu distros is German. Ubuntu is Australian, really that makes it part of the overall British Commonwealth and much more "european" than "american". I can't comment on kernel contributions, package managers, etc. What is important is that the EU has several times looked at "computing independence", and if you look at Windows and Linux, Linux was much more european from that standpoint. AMD is american, but it's my impression they invested early into building europe-based fabs, which gave them a leg up with EU antitrust against Intel. From the "game of thrones" of geopolitics, AMD and Linux and CERN gave the EU some degree of parity, or at least an ability to stay close and relevant, with US tech innovations.
    - justinclift 2y ago
      > Ubuntu is Australian That sounds weird. What's that based on? You're not meaning Mark Shuttleworth are you? If so, then nope, he's from South Africa. ;)
- safety1st 2y ago
  Yes I thought the article was a little bit ranty and missed the point. It's fundamentally about Germany trying to move off of MS software, well the reason they want to do that is because they don't want to depend on software that can be backdoored trivially by a foreign government. The US can compel Microsoft to insert a backdoor in any of its products at any time and it will happen (probably has already). Open source has this inherent advantage, at least backdoors have to be snuck by the eyes of the maintainers (though it can and does happen as we have seen). So I think the writing is on the wall, this will increasingly be a competitive disadvantage for American solutions in Europe as time goes on.
  - DustinBrett 2y ago
    After a Microsoft employee found a huge backdoor in Linux. Likely one of many.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago

That may win when the budget deadlines come. But underlying this was the European Union not liking being dependent upon the American monopoly of operating systems and other key software, particularly closed source proprietary American government controlled software. And really Linux is European software. They should have been doing this decades ago of course. I think everyone is looking around and seeing that the era of free trade, relative peace, and good relations based on trade is dead with the Ukraine war heralding a new age.

Rinzler89 2y ago
>And really Linux is European software. Excuse me, but WHAT?
- justinclift 2y ago
  Interestingly, the wikipedia page for Linux Torvalds says he's "Finnish / American" rather than just Finnish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds So "European" probably has some validity through this chain, though "American" probably does too. :)
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Firstly, Linus is an Finish-American citizen of born in a Swedish minority in Finland, living in the US, so how how would that make Linux in any way "European"? Even if he weren't a US citizen living in the US, it would still be hard to call Linux "European" due to the following point: Linux the project is a collaboration from contributors from across the world, so how would that make it "European"? Just because the project was started by an EU citizen in the EU over 3 decades ago, doesn't really give the EU claims of ownership over what is essentially a public open project, even if the EU were to somehow ever attempt to claim it as theirs.
    - vasac 2y ago
      Small nitpick - Linux was created in 1991, while the EEC was transformed into the EU in 1992 (effective 1993), and Finland became part of the EU in 1995.
    - swores 2y ago
      Companies like Facebook are global now, and we call them American because of where they were founded / where they are still HQ'd. Linux doesn't have a HQ or a stock market it's listed on, so isn't the place it was founded a reasonable choice if trying to describe it as anything other than "global"? Of course the EU can't claim to own it, just as they can't claim to own BMW if they chose to move all operations out of Europe, but we'd probably still call BMW a European / German company until it becomes established as being more to do with another single location rather than just all round the world.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        There's a difference between something being "European" and something having started in Europe. Linux is not a private enterprise with an HQ in Europe so just because it started in Europe in the past, doesn't mean it's European today. Especially when the guy who started it all is now a US citizen living and working on the Linux kernel from the US with most of the funding for the contributions coming from US companies. So shouldn't it be American now?
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  I suppose what I should have said is that Linux is much more European. KDE is DEFINITELY European. And as part of the KDE project came office applications and the once-web-browser Konqueror. Tim Berners-Lee and CERN were european, you can view the early internet as European even if TCPIP came from the US DARPA. Suse, one of the most important pre-ubuntu distros is German. Ubuntu is Australian, really that makes it part of the overall British Commonwealth and much more "european" than "american". I can't comment on kernel contributions, package managers, etc. What is important is that the EU has several times looked at "computing independence", and if you look at Windows and Linux, Linux was much more european from that standpoint. AMD is american, but it's my impression they invested early into building europe-based fabs, which gave them a leg up with EU antitrust against Intel. From the "game of thrones" of geopolitics, AMD and Linux and CERN gave the EU some degree of parity, or at least an ability to stay close and relevant, with US tech innovations.
  - justinclift 2y ago
    > Ubuntu is Australian That sounds weird. What's that based on? You're not meaning Mark Shuttleworth are you? If so, then nope, he's from South Africa. ;)
safety1st 2y ago
Yes I thought the article was a little bit ranty and missed the point. It's fundamentally about Germany trying to move off of MS software, well the reason they want to do that is because they don't want to depend on software that can be backdoored trivially by a foreign government. The US can compel Microsoft to insert a backdoor in any of its products at any time and it will happen (probably has already). Open source has this inherent advantage, at least backdoors have to be snuck by the eyes of the maintainers (though it can and does happen as we have seen). So I think the writing is on the wall, this will increasingly be a competitive disadvantage for American solutions in Europe as time goes on.
- DustinBrett 2y ago
  After a Microsoft employee found a huge backdoor in Linux. Likely one of many.