4 ms·

Nothing new really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_...

by tocs3 3y ago

mistrial9 3y ago
this is not the right analogy IMHO
graemep 3y ago
That is entirely different - neither of the interpretations suggested in the wikipedia is similar phenomenon. What we are talking about here is why people who do things that make a particularly important contribution to society get paid less than people doing otherwise similar (e.g. in terms of skill required etc.) jobs. Very few things like this are new, but I think it has probably become worse in recent times.
- pjerem 3y ago
  To me it’s simply because those people have no negotiation leverage over their employers. Take nurses, doctors or firefighters, what are they going to do if they don’t get better working conditions ? Refuse to work ? A strike ? That’s impossible because they know the consequences (or depending the country because they aren’t even allowed to). Even in France with our culture of strikes, people working in healthcare have poor working conditions because they basically can’t stop working even if they’re unionized. Same for teachers : for them it’s pretty different, they do strikes frequently to ask for better conditions but it’s basically never effective because governments know they’ll eventually get back to work. And ultimately the only ones to suffer from those strikes are the teachers themselves and the children they strive for. Job market just isn’t working for people who want their work to be meaningful or important to the society.
  - graemep 3y ago
    I think you are right and it is part of the explanation. What this explains is why the public are OK with that and these people do not get more widespread support for higher pay. I really do not understand why people think it is fair that teachers in the UK get paid about half of what train drivers do. The fact that they do is because train drivers strikes have more immediate impact than those of teachers, but the fact that the public do to realise the problems this causes (e.g. a shortage of teachers, overworked teachers meaning they do their jobs less well, etc) might be explained by the perception that they are adequately rewarded by knowing their work matters.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      When trains crash people die. A teacher? It takes 20-30 years to know if they’ve done anything.
commandlinefan 3y ago
That's... not at all what that story was about. You're not even supposed to interpret that literally, he was talking about converting to Christianity and getting into heaven.
tocs3 3y ago
I got down voted. How do you down vote (not upset just don't know). In the parable workers work all day and are paid the same as workers that work for a very short time. As a parable it does not work very well without the content of the disciples questions but it is still a very old story about not valuing those that work more.

Nothing new really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_...

by tocs3 3y ago

Nothing new really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_...

mistrial9 3y ago

this is not the right analogy IMHO

graemep 3y ago

That is entirely different - neither of the interpretations suggested in the wikipedia is similar phenomenon. What we are talking about here is why people who do things that make a particularly important contribution to society get paid less than people doing otherwise similar (e.g. in terms of skill required etc.) jobs. Very few things like this are new, but I think it has probably become worse in recent times.

pjerem 3y ago
To me it’s simply because those people have no negotiation leverage over their employers. Take nurses, doctors or firefighters, what are they going to do if they don’t get better working conditions ? Refuse to work ? A strike ? That’s impossible because they know the consequences (or depending the country because they aren’t even allowed to). Even in France with our culture of strikes, people working in healthcare have poor working conditions because they basically can’t stop working even if they’re unionized. Same for teachers : for them it’s pretty different, they do strikes frequently to ask for better conditions but it’s basically never effective because governments know they’ll eventually get back to work. And ultimately the only ones to suffer from those strikes are the teachers themselves and the children they strive for. Job market just isn’t working for people who want their work to be meaningful or important to the society.
- graemep 3y ago
  I think you are right and it is part of the explanation. What this explains is why the public are OK with that and these people do not get more widespread support for higher pay. I really do not understand why people think it is fair that teachers in the UK get paid about half of what train drivers do. The fact that they do is because train drivers strikes have more immediate impact than those of teachers, but the fact that the public do to realise the problems this causes (e.g. a shortage of teachers, overworked teachers meaning they do their jobs less well, etc) might be explained by the perception that they are adequately rewarded by knowing their work matters.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    When trains crash people die. A teacher? It takes 20-30 years to know if they’ve done anything.

commandlinefan 3y ago

That's... not at all what that story was about. You're not even supposed to interpret that literally, he was talking about converting to Christianity and getting into heaven.

tocs3 3y ago

I got down voted. How do you down vote (not upset just don't know). In the parable workers work all day and are paid the same as workers that work for a very short time. As a parable it does not work very well without the content of the disciples questions but it is still a very old story about not valuing those that work more.