4 ms·

If the root cause of the actual collision with the bridge was itself an illegal act, then then perhaps the operator could be facing felony murder charges for th

If the root cause of the actual collision with the bridge was itself an illegal act, then then perhaps the operator could be facing felony murder charges for the deaths of those involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
But felony murder is still usually reserved for circumstances where the original crime is violent itself. You may be guilty of felony murder if the bank guard shoots one of your fellow robbers... you were committing violence after all. But when criminal negligence is the extent of your original crime, homicide should be limited to, at most I should think, some manslaughter charge.
- 91bananas 3y ago
  neglegent homicide and involuntary manslaughter seem to be used interchangeably in the US.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    Manslaughter is in fact a subset of homicide Homicide is literally just person kills person. That includes murder, manslaughter, self defense, etc.
- Retric 3y ago
  Many states charge people for murder with sufficiently reckless behavior endangering public safety even without violent criminal intent. Such as wildly excessive spending and drunk driving etc. The underlying logic is risking someone’s life is violent.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    I've never once in my 35 years of reading newspapers seen a charge of murder for drunk driving. Are you quite certain of this? I suppose there might be one of those out there, but this can't be a common thing. In most states, there's a specific sort of manslaughter charge just for this sort of crime. "Felony murder" is a specific crime, and not some generic term. It's when someone is killed during your crime but that you didn't cause the death directly. In those cases, you can be charged with murder (and it's very much a murder charge, not a manslaughter charge) anyway, simply because you set into motion the circumstances that would lead to that criminal killing. Often, when that charge is leveled, you have all sorts of silly liberals defending them "well, he didn't fire the shot himself, blame the other guy" and crap like that. I keep forgetting that most people don't seem to have much interest in this, nor do they understand any of these crimes. Murder's just an interchangeable word for "someone was killed" for most of you. It's sort of embarrassing. Don't you feel bad that your vote counts as much as mine?
    - Retric 3y ago
      > Are you quite certain of this? Yes, in this specific case you are misinformed. “Monterey County District Attorney Jeannine M. Pacioni announced today that David Merino Ramirez, age 32, was sentenced today to 15 years to life in state prison after a jury in February convicted him of Murder and Vehicular Manslaughter. Judge Rafael Vasquez imposed the sentence. On August 21, 2020, around 9:00 p.m., Ramirez was driving northbound at speeds exceeding 80mph on Metz Road between the cities of Greenfield and Soledad. Due to his excessive speed and level of intoxication Ramirez lost control, striking a dirt embankment and flipping his car upside down. His passenger, Noe Santillan, 26, was pronounced dead at the scene of the crash by first responders.” 04/11/2024 https://www.countyofmonterey.gov/Home/Components/News/News/10634/ https://www.countyofmonterey.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1... Edit: Newspaper article https://salinasvalleytribune.com/jury-convicts-soledad-man-of-murder-and-gross-vehicular-manslaughter-while-intoxicated/ https://salinasvalleytribune.com/jury-convicts-soledad-man-o... Different cases: April 12, 2024 https://www.foxla.com/news/pandolfi-yesenia-aguilar-dui-driver-sentenced-in-murder-of-pregnant-anaheim-woman https://www.foxla.com/news/pandolfi-yesenia-aguilar-dui-driv... March 31 2024 https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2024/03/31/el-paso-murder-drunk-driving-crash-arrest-enrique-joel-pena-death-of-isidro-ruiz/73147843007/ https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2024/03/31/el-p... February 1 2024 https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article284973962.html https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article284973... Nationwide it’s quite common.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
        I don't know if this is a joke or not. You lead with "you are misinformed", and then follow up with >after a jury in February convicted him of Murder and Vehicular Manslaughter. In other words, manslaughter not murder. You're using the two terms interchangeably, and they're simply not such, not in any legal discussion. I also like how you get your citations all nice and pretty, got good grades for that in school, I'm guessing... but can't get the substance of your argument right (and couldn't read mine with comprehension, apparently). Do you understand that "murder" and "manslaughter" are two different classes of crimes, and that the latter, manslaughter is pretty much always the lesser class of crime? Murder generally requires things like intent to kill, premeditation, even "depraved indifference" or callousness. No drunk driver is ever charged with murder, and if they were, it's doubtful that a judge wouldn't pimpsmack it back out of court immediately. I don't know how this can be explained more simply. Jailhouse crooks often get this, and most of them are borderline retarded.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

But felony murder is still usually reserved for circumstances where the original crime is violent itself. You may be guilty of felony murder if the bank guard shoots one of your fellow robbers... you were committing violence after all. But when criminal negligence is the extent of your original crime, homicide should be limited to, at most I should think, some manslaughter charge.

91bananas 3y ago
neglegent homicide and involuntary manslaughter seem to be used interchangeably in the US.
- dmoy 3y ago
  Manslaughter is in fact a subset of homicide Homicide is literally just person kills person. That includes murder, manslaughter, self defense, etc.
Retric 3y ago
Many states charge people for murder with sufficiently reckless behavior endangering public safety even without violent criminal intent. Such as wildly excessive spending and drunk driving etc. The underlying logic is risking someone’s life is violent.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  I've never once in my 35 years of reading newspapers seen a charge of murder for drunk driving. Are you quite certain of this? I suppose there might be one of those out there, but this can't be a common thing. In most states, there's a specific sort of manslaughter charge just for this sort of crime. "Felony murder" is a specific crime, and not some generic term. It's when someone is killed during your crime but that you didn't cause the death directly. In those cases, you can be charged with murder (and it's very much a murder charge, not a manslaughter charge) anyway, simply because you set into motion the circumstances that would lead to that criminal killing. Often, when that charge is leveled, you have all sorts of silly liberals defending them "well, he didn't fire the shot himself, blame the other guy" and crap like that. I keep forgetting that most people don't seem to have much interest in this, nor do they understand any of these crimes. Murder's just an interchangeable word for "someone was killed" for most of you. It's sort of embarrassing. Don't you feel bad that your vote counts as much as mine?
  - Retric 3y ago
    > Are you quite certain of this? Yes, in this specific case you are misinformed. “Monterey County District Attorney Jeannine M. Pacioni announced today that David Merino Ramirez, age 32, was sentenced today to 15 years to life in state prison after a jury in February convicted him of Murder and Vehicular Manslaughter. Judge Rafael Vasquez imposed the sentence. On August 21, 2020, around 9:00 p.m., Ramirez was driving northbound at speeds exceeding 80mph on Metz Road between the cities of Greenfield and Soledad. Due to his excessive speed and level of intoxication Ramirez lost control, striking a dirt embankment and flipping his car upside down. His passenger, Noe Santillan, 26, was pronounced dead at the scene of the crash by first responders.” 04/11/2024 https://www.countyofmonterey.gov/Home/Components/News/News/10634/ https://www.countyofmonterey.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1... Edit: Newspaper article https://salinasvalleytribune.com/jury-convicts-soledad-man-of-murder-and-gross-vehicular-manslaughter-while-intoxicated/ https://salinasvalleytribune.com/jury-convicts-soledad-man-o... Different cases: April 12, 2024 https://www.foxla.com/news/pandolfi-yesenia-aguilar-dui-driver-sentenced-in-murder-of-pregnant-anaheim-woman https://www.foxla.com/news/pandolfi-yesenia-aguilar-dui-driv... March 31 2024 https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2024/03/31/el-paso-murder-drunk-driving-crash-arrest-enrique-joel-pena-death-of-isidro-ruiz/73147843007/ https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/crime/2024/03/31/el-p... February 1 2024 https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article284973962.html https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article284973... Nationwide it’s quite common.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
      I don't know if this is a joke or not. You lead with "you are misinformed", and then follow up with >after a jury in February convicted him of Murder and Vehicular Manslaughter. In other words, manslaughter not murder. You're using the two terms interchangeably, and they're simply not such, not in any legal discussion. I also like how you get your citations all nice and pretty, got good grades for that in school, I'm guessing... but can't get the substance of your argument right (and couldn't read mine with comprehension, apparently). Do you understand that "murder" and "manslaughter" are two different classes of crimes, and that the latter, manslaughter is pretty much always the lesser class of crime? Murder generally requires things like intent to kill, premeditation, even "depraved indifference" or callousness. No drunk driver is ever charged with murder, and if they were, it's doubtful that a judge wouldn't pimpsmack it back out of court immediately. I don't know how this can be explained more simply. Jailhouse crooks often get this, and most of them are borderline retarded.