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A society in which "the average car-buyer" has a tiny portable steel-melting laser is a society where I'm wearing welding goggles every time I leave the house.
by aqme28 3y ago
A society in which "the average car-buyer" has a tiny portable steel-melting laser is a society where I'm wearing welding goggles every time I leave the house. And I'm not sure how you even lock a bike or a door or a safe any more.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- big_man_ting 3y agoThis is a terrifying prospect indeed, especially being located in the Netherlands, plenty bikes are getting stolen left and right already. But I guess this is inevitable, so we'll just have to devise better solutions than the simple locks which in their working principles have not changed in the past 100+ years. Great market opportunity around the corner I suppose.
- boxed 3y agoPlenty of locks are mostly just for show anyway. See Lockpicking Lawyers youtube channel.
- dnpls 3y agoYes, but the average bike thief is looking for an easy steal and will avoid wasting time on a locked bike. Bikes in the Netherlands usually have 2 locks (a wheel lock and an extra chain), so thieves will usually move on from those first. A portable laser might allow a thief to steal even previously safer bikes just because it makes it quicker and silent (I'm assuming both).
- sarchertech 3y agoIt won’t be quicker. The laser in the demonstration was cutting through 100 micrometers of steel. Cutting through a chain is going to take much much longer. There are already quicker methods to cut or break bike chains and disable locks. Also cutting with a laser requires very precise alignment with respect to distance. You won’t be free handing this. You’d need to mount it on a device capable of precisely adjusting the distance as you cut deeper into the metal. Plus it’s relatively easy to engineer laser resistant materials.
- somerandomqaguy 3y agoProbably not. Heating steel doesn't cut it, it just forms a puddle of molten metal that will cling to the base material. For cutting to work, you need to blow it off somehow. For plasma and oxy-fuel cutting, the hot gases coming out the nozzle acts as the mass that blows it off. Air carbon arc gouging uses regular compressed air to push the molten material away. I imagine industrial laser cuttings dealing with anything larger then a few millimetres thick would use compressed air as well. I doubt a smaller more efficient laser is going to change that reality.
- adolph 3y agoIt is an interesting problem since the existence of one cutter forces on offense forces all defenders to make substantial changes. I suspect the most expedient way will be to semi-criminalize carry of the devices, similar to spray paint in some places.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sarchertech 3y agoThere are already so many ways to defeat locks, that locks are just there to keep honest people honest and to slow down criminals. The laser in the article took 30 seconds to cut a a tiny disc out of a sheet of steel 100 micrometers thick. That isn’t going to change things on the theft front. There are much more effective methods available today.
- lucioperca 3y agoA dutch women told me once a story, where she but a used bike in Amsterdam and the heroin addict who sold it to her, threaten her to steal it again, if she does not use a heavy lock.
- passwordoops 3y agoWhen I moved to the Netherlands my boss told me to never spend more than 20 euro on a bike because it will get stolen. I didn't listen, and lo and behold two weeks in my 75 euro bike and the 35 euro heavy duty lock disappeared
- themaninthedark 3y agoThat is rather sad to hear.
- notyoutube 3y agoI'm skeptical: * Where do you buy a ≤20 euro bike? * Most people on the street have bikes that look to be at least 200 euros new, from what I can tell.
- henriquecm8 3y agoThey didn't mention the year of the story, it could've happened a couple of decades ago.
- yolo3000 3y agoI've never done it, but you buy it from the thief (junkie) directly. So it could be that you find them by word of mouth, like you would use to buy drugs when they were illegal. But you can also buy a second hand bike very cheaply, some are even free (just an example: https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-heren-herenfietsen/m2098666103-herenfiets https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-her...). New bikes are usually more than 200 euros, dutch brands are 500 euros and up
- RecycledEle 3y agoThe same can be said of BB guns that can put out eyes, lock picks that can open locked doors, and bolt cutters than can break chains. More powerful tools are a good thing.
- aqme28 3y agoA BB gun has to be used very intentionally to hurt your eyes. A high-powered laser could blind you because your neighbor is doing some work on his shed and you caught a reflection
- bingbingbing777 3y agoHave you not heard of stray bullets, crossfire etc?
- ben_w 3y agoBB gun — that's as in "ball bearing" — also known as "airsoft". In this example, crossfire would require someone to walk into an airsoft combat area without any eye protection and for someone in that game to not realise and shoot them anyway. In the face. Stray BB bullets don't go very far. They're not rifled, and they have fairly low muzzle energy compared to real weapons — I've shot myself with one at zero range, and even on bare skin it stings rather than penetrates.
- marky1991 3y agoA bb gun and an airsoft gun are very different things to me. A bb gun shoots metal balls and airsoft shoots plastic. I would not want to be hit by a bb gun, but an airsoft gun is no big deal (though the snipers can definitely hurt).
- jjk166 3y agoDiffuse reflection is only dangerous up to a few feet away. You're neighbor would have to be deliberately aiming the beam at your eye to blind you assuming you're not in the shed with them.
- llm_trw 3y agoEveryone can already afford a stick welder. We don't need goggles when we leave the house.
- aqme28 3y agoThose can’t blind you from a distance though. Not nearly the same risk
- llm_trw 3y agoThey absolutely can. Anyone around them for long enough has dead spots in their eyes.
- aqme28 3y agoI mean like a bystander walking by a construction site who just happens to catch a bad reflection for a fraction of a second
- GuB-42 3y agoNot at all the same risk profile. Arc welding is just a really bright UV light, and without appropriate protection, it will cause what is essentially a sunburn on the surface of the eye. It is painful, but it usually heals in a couple of days. It shouldn't significantly damage the retina. Laser light is different: a laser is effectively a point light source, and it will focus inside the eye to a single point with enough brightness to cause a burn. It can cause a permanent blind spot, and damage may happen faster and be less noticeable at first.
- dghughes 3y agoThe headlights of 2024 Ford F150 can blind me from a distance.
- jfoutz 3y agoyes, but not permanently. You can certainly get dazzled by bright headlights, I can anyway. but laser light, like staring into the sun, will destroy the delicate structure of your retina, and it doesn't grow back.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago"The average car-buyer or metalworker" can already afford a $30 cordless angle grinder: https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/grinders/angle-grinders/4-1-2-in-cordless/20v-cordless-4-12-in-slide-switch-angle-grinder-tool-only-56401.html https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/grinders/angle-gri... (Cost plus a $30-$80 battery, of course, but after you pick your color, you've already got batteries). Your locks are far more protected by the social contract that would compel a stranger to stop someone who was cutting a bike lock with an angle grinder, and would cause a thief to fear arrest, prosecution, and jail time, than by actual physical security. If you want a laser, you can already get a 100W CO2 laser tube for $500: https://www.amazon.com/Cloudray-W2-Dia-80mm-Engraver/dp/B08GLMRR1K https://www.amazon.com/Cloudray-W2-Dia-80mm-Engraver/dp/B08G... It won't do a great job of cutting steel - it will engrave it, but to cut steel you'd need O2 assist gas and a lot more power. It will trivially cut ABS, foam, fabric, wood veneer/thin plywood, cardstock, etc. if attached to a pair of mirrors on an XY stage such as might be borrowed/scaled up from a 3D printer. And, of course, it will trivially scar corneas with the invisible danger of its 10,600 nm laser light. Good news, though - ordinary polycarbonate safety glasses are opaque to the extreme IR light. Laser safety is serious business, but highly-collimated, tightly-focused laser light is not likely to be produced by a cheap, portable laser. The above tube produces a 100W beam with a diameter of about 8mm. I wouldn't put my eyeball in the path, but a safety shutter can sit in the beam indefinitely and merely get warm. You melt steel by focusing a this 8mm beam down to a infinitesimally tiny spot, and beyond the focal length of your optics it diffuses to something no more dangerous than the source 8mm beam, and beyond that it's no more dangerous than an average lightbulb - albeit one that you have no aversion response/blink reflex to. I always wear my goggles near our cutting lasers, but I know lots of guys who have worked around 20W-20,000W CO2 lasers their entire lives and they're pretty cavalier with regards to laser safety. Finally, a welding mask is a neutral-density filter, suitable for the (very approximately) black-body radiation produced by a welder, and is much less effective than laser safety goggles at blocking high-intensity light of a very specific color. Depending on the sensor, an auto-darkening mask might not even trigger when exposed to a laser! You'd want a set of 940nm laser safety goggles for this, which is far more exotic and dangerous than a 10um CO2 laser.
- stavros 3y ago
- analog31 3y agoMy bike is protected by Anti-Theft Aesthetics (tm).
- sschueller 3y agoBecause of this Switzerland has outlawed portable laser pointers higher than the lowest class. Anything more powerful than a low end projector pointer is now classified as a weapon and regulated as such. This at least keeps these units out of the hands of the general public and those that can't use them responsibly. It sucks for those of us who used them responsibly just like we did with RC aircraft before drones became an item on a discount shelve. However at least I know that if I go to a large event or even a demo I won't be permanently blinded by some idiot.
- kwhitefoot 3y agoSame in Norway, in 2015. Anything above 1mW is forbidden in practice although the law leaves the actual limit and exceptions to the regulating authority.
- Domenic_S 3y agoWhat keeps someone from driving across the border to acquire one, or ordering on ebay, or getting one at a sketchy shop? "Some idiot" is exactly the kind of person that would ignore the law. I mean it seems like a fine law, but it's a law so now I never have to think about it again seems strange to me. Running stop signs is outlawed but I still look before I cross the street.
- sschueller 3y agoIt doesn't stop anyone. But packages are randomly checked and so are cars going over the border. Same goes for guns. Someone can aquire one illegally but fines are high and there is no impulsive purchase at the next Kiosk so circulation is low and you aren't going to get "lasered" by 20+ green lasers at some event.
- sorokod 3y agoA hard kill APS might help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system
- rhelz 3y agoI hate to tell you this, but you can already buy infrared lasers off of eBay which have completely invisible beams which can blind yo.
- pants2 3y agoThis is something that makes me nervous any time I see YouTube videos about these sorts of lasers. They can blind someone nearly instantly, silently, and invisibly from a quarter mile away. That's terrifying.
- ordu 3y ago> A society in which "the average car-buyer" has a tiny portable steel-melting laser is a society where I'm wearing welding goggles every time I leave the house. VR-headset will be better, because it can attune brightness and contrast so you can see even at dusk.