5 ms·

Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce

56 points by choult 2y ago

bocytron 2y ago
Duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038549
lenerdenator 2y ago
Perhaps it's not the workforce that needs reform. Perhaps it's the C-suite.
chollida1 2y ago
I'd say Tesla is in alot of trouble from: - low cost EV's from China - a CEO who has alot of other interest - a product line that is starting to look pretty old - a new truck product that has hard far more complaints than their other lines - a cancelled low end car that will allow a big door open to low cost providers. But I've thought Tesla was in trouble before and I've been very wrong on that account. Their charging network is a nice moat but one that can be over come in a few years as setting a charging station is now a week's worth of work, unlike a gas station that can take a year just for permitting. Their stock price used to be a huge net positive for Tesla to help keep employees happy and cover up alot of mistakes on roll outs but that hasn't been great in the last year and their largest owner has alot of sell pressure on the stock due to his other interests so its hard to see the stock doing well in the next year to two. The thing that keeps me from seeing Tesla fall off a cliff is that Elon seems capable of doing incredible things if he can focus. If Tesla really starts to decline and Elon can find a way to stay off twitter and focus on it then I can't see how you short this company. Even if the worst happens to it, someone will acquire it just for their global factory setup and their battery production.
- micromacrofoot 2y ago
  > a CEO who has alot of other interest I nearly spit out my coffee at this, understatement of the year lol
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  > If Tesla really starts to decline and Elon can find a way to stay off twitter and focus on it then I can't see how you short this company. That's the rub. He blew $44 billion on the company and it's been shitting the bed for a year-and-a-half now. He's incapable of not being distracted by that site; he's spent more money on it than you and everyone you're going to be friends with will be worth, combined, by at least an order of magnitude.
- brandonagr2 2y ago
  The next gen platform is not cancelled, you list both "old product line" and "new truck" as contradictory items. There has been near universal praise from all cybertruck owners about how great it is, what complaints are you referring to?
- dangus 2y ago
  > The thing that keeps me from seeing Tesla fall off a cliff is that Elon seems capable of doing incredible things if he can focus. Pre-covid Elon Musk is not a person who exists anymore. I don’t know any other CEOs who have time to tweet 6 times per day. Tesla should have made a proper three row SUV like the EV9. The Model X is too much of an exotic low-volume car. They also should make a low cost vehicle even if it’s only sold in China. The Cybertruck isn’t that bad of a move on paper. The big 3 make all their profit on trucks. The problem with it is that North America is the slowest growth EV market, so that effort would have been better spent on cars that appeal to China and Europe. It also could have been done with far less effort and better profit margins if the design was more conventional. It could have eaten Ford and Rivian’s lunch but instead the style is going to follow the same exotic-to-played-out curve as the Chrysler PT cruiser. I.e., in terms of styling how do you make a second generation Cybertruck? It’s a dead end. Car companies can’t have CEOs who publicly discriminate against groups of people because cars are a product that are purchased across demographic lines. When Elon retweets an antisemitic post he is giving away 2.5% of potential sales to the Jewish population plus anyone who sympathizes. Subaru made itself into a major brand by being inclusive, advertising to a neglected marginalized group in the 90s. Tesla took a rapid growth company into contraction by having a CEO who is more interested in divisive identity politics than making a buck. It’s critical to the company that they part ways with Elon Musk.
  - mandeepj 2y ago
    > tweet 6 times per day You meant 6 times per hours or even a min (under some cases)?
- kcplate 2y ago
  I think Tesla’s problems really boil down to two things: Anyone who really wants a Tesla has probably bought one already. …And… Almost everyone without an EV, but wants to buy one, probably will not buy a Tesla.
ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
high interest rates have sapped consumer appetite for big-ticket items What are the interest rates in the US for someone who takes out a loan to buy a car? And another question: Are people not saving for their retirement? If they do, wouldn't it be better to take the money to buy the car from your savings and avoid paying interest?
- sanex 2y ago
  They've actually been comparable to mortgage rates. My car and house purchased in 2020 are both 2.75, now houses and cars are more in the 7 range depending on your credit.
  - indigodaddy 2y ago
    Houses are high 7’s now and could easily go higher. Crazy time
    - sanex 2y ago
      I think that's more normal. When my parents bought I think they said it was 13 in the late 80s. We've just been spoiled by ZIRP
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      The economy got addicted to cheap money. 7% is historically pretty reasonable. The problem for houses is that we didn't build any after the 2008 crisis and the baby boomers have enacted a lot of policies for themselves that cut their property taxes at the expense of young people who want to buy their first home.
    - pc86 2y ago
      It's only "crazy" if your context is an aberrant period of time when borrowing huge sums of money was basically free. Plenty of people alive today bought homes at 8, 10, 12, 15% interest rates.
- trothamel 2y ago
paxys 2y ago
Robo taxi announcement didn't pump the stock as much as expected?
- kombookcha 2y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. In 2019 he announced they would have a "fleet of robo taxis by 2020". You can only wind interest up with shiny promises so many times before you've worn out the goodwill of your audience. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32159871/tesla-robo-taxis-still-coming-2020/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32159871/tesla-robo-taxis...
luckyou 2y ago
Tesla will decline as soon as the US lifts the embargo on Chinese cars. However, it is unlikely that the US will ever do that.
matthewfelgate 2y ago
"Billionaire owner" Incorrect. He is CEO and major shareholder.
- pc86 2y ago
  How is it incorrect? He is a billionaire. He is the owner. He owns a plurality of the stock, something like 15%.
  - matthewfelgate 2y ago
    I don't like people being titled "Billionaire" for no reason. Owner suggest 100%, not 15%.
    - pc86 2y ago
      Owner suggests ownership - he owns something like 15%. And he is a billionaire. "I don't like this true thing" is very different from "this is incorrect."
      - matthewfelgate 2y ago
        He doesn't own Tesla it's a public company.

56 points by choult 2y ago

bocytron 2y ago

Duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40038549

lenerdenator 2y ago

Perhaps it's not the workforce that needs reform. Perhaps it's the C-suite.

chollida1 2y ago

I'd say Tesla is in alot of trouble from: - low cost EV's from China - a CEO who has alot of other interest - a product line that is starting to look pretty old - a new truck product that has hard far more complaints than their other lines - a cancelled low end car that will allow a big door open to low cost providers. But I've thought Tesla was in trouble before and I've been very wrong on that account. Their charging network is a nice moat but one that can be over come in a few years as setting a charging station is now a week's worth of work, unlike a gas station that can take a year just for permitting. Their stock price used to be a huge net positive for Tesla to help keep employees happy and cover up alot of mistakes on roll outs but that hasn't been great in the last year and their largest owner has alot of sell pressure on the stock due to his other interests so its hard to see the stock doing well in the next year to two. The thing that keeps me from seeing Tesla fall off a cliff is that Elon seems capable of doing incredible things if he can focus. If Tesla really starts to decline and Elon can find a way to stay off twitter and focus on it then I can't see how you short this company. Even if the worst happens to it, someone will acquire it just for their global factory setup and their battery production.

micromacrofoot 2y ago
> a CEO who has alot of other interest I nearly spit out my coffee at this, understatement of the year lol
lenerdenator 2y ago
> If Tesla really starts to decline and Elon can find a way to stay off twitter and focus on it then I can't see how you short this company. That's the rub. He blew $44 billion on the company and it's been shitting the bed for a year-and-a-half now. He's incapable of not being distracted by that site; he's spent more money on it than you and everyone you're going to be friends with will be worth, combined, by at least an order of magnitude.
brandonagr2 2y ago
The next gen platform is not cancelled, you list both "old product line" and "new truck" as contradictory items. There has been near universal praise from all cybertruck owners about how great it is, what complaints are you referring to?
dangus 2y ago
> The thing that keeps me from seeing Tesla fall off a cliff is that Elon seems capable of doing incredible things if he can focus. Pre-covid Elon Musk is not a person who exists anymore. I don’t know any other CEOs who have time to tweet 6 times per day. Tesla should have made a proper three row SUV like the EV9. The Model X is too much of an exotic low-volume car. They also should make a low cost vehicle even if it’s only sold in China. The Cybertruck isn’t that bad of a move on paper. The big 3 make all their profit on trucks. The problem with it is that North America is the slowest growth EV market, so that effort would have been better spent on cars that appeal to China and Europe. It also could have been done with far less effort and better profit margins if the design was more conventional. It could have eaten Ford and Rivian’s lunch but instead the style is going to follow the same exotic-to-played-out curve as the Chrysler PT cruiser. I.e., in terms of styling how do you make a second generation Cybertruck? It’s a dead end. Car companies can’t have CEOs who publicly discriminate against groups of people because cars are a product that are purchased across demographic lines. When Elon retweets an antisemitic post he is giving away 2.5% of potential sales to the Jewish population plus anyone who sympathizes. Subaru made itself into a major brand by being inclusive, advertising to a neglected marginalized group in the 90s. Tesla took a rapid growth company into contraction by having a CEO who is more interested in divisive identity politics than making a buck. It’s critical to the company that they part ways with Elon Musk.
- mandeepj 2y ago
  > tweet 6 times per day You meant 6 times per hours or even a min (under some cases)?
kcplate 2y ago
I think Tesla’s problems really boil down to two things: Anyone who really wants a Tesla has probably bought one already. …And… Almost everyone without an EV, but wants to buy one, probably will not buy a Tesla.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago

high interest rates have sapped consumer appetite for big-ticket items What are the interest rates in the US for someone who takes out a loan to buy a car? And another question: Are people not saving for their retirement? If they do, wouldn't it be better to take the money to buy the car from your savings and avoid paying interest?

sanex 2y ago
They've actually been comparable to mortgage rates. My car and house purchased in 2020 are both 2.75, now houses and cars are more in the 7 range depending on your credit.
- indigodaddy 2y ago
  Houses are high 7’s now and could easily go higher. Crazy time
  - sanex 2y ago
    I think that's more normal. When my parents bought I think they said it was 13 in the late 80s. We've just been spoiled by ZIRP
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    The economy got addicted to cheap money. 7% is historically pretty reasonable. The problem for houses is that we didn't build any after the 2008 crisis and the baby boomers have enacted a lot of policies for themselves that cut their property taxes at the expense of young people who want to buy their first home.
  - pc86 2y ago
    It's only "crazy" if your context is an aberrant period of time when borrowing huge sums of money was basically free. Plenty of people alive today bought homes at 8, 10, 12, 15% interest rates.
trothamel 2y ago

paxys 2y ago

Robo taxi announcement didn't pump the stock as much as expected?

kombookcha 2y ago
I was thinking the same thing. In 2019 he announced they would have a "fleet of robo taxis by 2020". You can only wind interest up with shiny promises so many times before you've worn out the goodwill of your audience. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32159871/tesla-robo-taxis-still-coming-2020/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32159871/tesla-robo-taxis...

luckyou 2y ago

Tesla will decline as soon as the US lifts the embargo on Chinese cars. However, it is unlikely that the US will ever do that.

matthewfelgate 2y ago

"Billionaire owner" Incorrect. He is CEO and major shareholder.

pc86 2y ago
How is it incorrect? He is a billionaire. He is the owner. He owns a plurality of the stock, something like 15%.
- matthewfelgate 2y ago
  I don't like people being titled "Billionaire" for no reason. Owner suggest 100%, not 15%.
  - pc86 2y ago
    Owner suggests ownership - he owns something like 15%. And he is a billionaire. "I don't like this true thing" is very different from "this is incorrect."
    - matthewfelgate 2y ago
      He doesn't own Tesla it's a public company.