4 ms·

I dont know. I think IPV6 is fighting momentum more than it's fighting usefulness.

rcxdude 3y ago
This. It's a massive chicken-and-egg problem, and it's far more of a problem for those without the resources to influence things than the big influential organisations. What it means is that IPv6 doesn't get adopted, and where/when it is adopted, it's stymied by the fact that other parts of the network aren't adopting it, as well as generally lower usage meaning it far more frequently is subtly broken without being fixed. (residential ISPs I think are the biggest culprit: that means there's no customers on ipv6 so there's no reason for websites to adopt it, and it's still suicide to go ipv6-only. But of course with no ipv6-only websites there's no pressure for ISPs to support it, and with a lot of websites lacking ipv6 newer ISPs without the address space can't go IPv6-only and get any customers, so hacks like CGNAT are still mandatory. And so the kinda-working status quo makes moving to the properly-working system much harder).
- pif 3y ago
  > It's a massive chicken-and-egg problem This was known since the incipit, still we moved on <facepalm/>. > And so the kinda-working status quo makes moving to the properly-working system much harder. It's called evolution: there is no "properly-working system" unless it works at every stage. If it is at disadvantage in an intermediate stage, it will never be selected.
  - the_real_cher 3y ago
    I don't know how accurate this is. I don't think there's any evidence that things have to be evolved in the tech world. paradigm shifts happen all the time.
    - pif 3y ago
      New paradigms happen from time to time. Paradigm shifts are rare, though. Look, all the good of OOP has not obliterated C. All the excellence of functional programming has not even made a dent in OOP adoption. Hell, COBOL is still running fine! Paradigm adoption is a matter of evolution: the fittest survives. When IPv6 will offer an immediate advantage to its users, people will switch to it. Until then, it is confined to those companies who are betting on it, other companies who have some spare money and prefer to spend it rather than have it taxed, and the stereotypical nerds who haven't anything more interesting to ponder about.
      - the_real_cher 3y ago
        You named some examples of non-paradigm shifts which also exist but there are plenty of examples of paradigm shifts. TCP/IP for example. LLM's. The Iphone. CRISPR. I could go on. My point is paradigm shifts happen quite often. Evolution happens as well but is by no means the ONLY way as you're claiming.
pif 3y ago
It cannot gain any momentum, because website cannot switch to IPv6: they can only support it as well, but they cannot get free of the burden of IPv4.
- pif 3y ago
  In other words, from a website point of view, IPv6 is useless.
  - orangeboats 3y ago
    Meh. My website server is IPv6-only (out of necessity; my IPv4 is CGNATed) and Cloudflare handles the IPv4 for me. If IPv6 is truly useless you wouldn't be able to visit my site at all, since Cloudflare is unable to make contact with the origin server.
  - the_real_cher 3y ago
    It can though.

This. It's a massive chicken-and-egg problem, and it's far more of a problem for those without the resources to influence things than the big influential organisations. What it means is that IPv6 doesn't get adopted, and where/when it is adopted, it's stymied by the fact that other parts of the network aren't adopting it, as well as generally lower usage meaning it far more frequently is subtly broken without being fixed. (residential ISPs I think are the biggest culprit: that means there's no customers on ipv6 so there's no reason for websites to adopt it, and it's still suicide to go ipv6-only. But of course with no ipv6-only websites there's no pressure for ISPs to support it, and with a lot of websites lacking ipv6 newer ISPs without the address space can't go IPv6-only and get any customers, so hacks like CGNAT are still mandatory. And so the kinda-working status quo makes moving to the properly-working system much harder).

pif 3y ago
> It's a massive chicken-and-egg problem This was known since the incipit, still we moved on <facepalm/>. > And so the kinda-working status quo makes moving to the properly-working system much harder. It's called evolution: there is no "properly-working system" unless it works at every stage. If it is at disadvantage in an intermediate stage, it will never be selected.
- the_real_cher 3y ago
  I don't know how accurate this is. I don't think there's any evidence that things have to be evolved in the tech world. paradigm shifts happen all the time.
  - pif 3y ago
    New paradigms happen from time to time. Paradigm shifts are rare, though. Look, all the good of OOP has not obliterated C. All the excellence of functional programming has not even made a dent in OOP adoption. Hell, COBOL is still running fine! Paradigm adoption is a matter of evolution: the fittest survives. When IPv6 will offer an immediate advantage to its users, people will switch to it. Until then, it is confined to those companies who are betting on it, other companies who have some spare money and prefer to spend it rather than have it taxed, and the stereotypical nerds who haven't anything more interesting to ponder about.
    - the_real_cher 3y ago
      You named some examples of non-paradigm shifts which also exist but there are plenty of examples of paradigm shifts. TCP/IP for example. LLM's. The Iphone. CRISPR. I could go on. My point is paradigm shifts happen quite often. Evolution happens as well but is by no means the ONLY way as you're claiming.

pif 3y ago

It cannot gain any momentum, because website cannot switch to IPv6: they can only support it as well, but they cannot get free of the burden of IPv4.

pif 3y ago
In other words, from a website point of view, IPv6 is useless.
- orangeboats 3y ago
  Meh. My website server is IPv6-only (out of necessity; my IPv4 is CGNATed) and Cloudflare handles the IPv4 for me. If IPv6 is truly useless you wouldn't be able to visit my site at all, since Cloudflare is unable to make contact with the origin server.
- the_real_cher 3y ago
  It can though.