5 ms·

Reading through the linked thread at https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 I'm in total agreement with Gen

Reading through the linked thread at https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 I'm in total agreement with Gentoo.

constantcrying 3y ago
Yes, something like that absolutely should be avoided at all cost. Genuinely in disbelief what I was reading in that thread. How do people think that an autogenerated nonsense description is better than not describing the software at all?
- suprfsat 3y ago
  He can't even invert a binary tree on a whiteboard.
- jddj 3y ago
  Feels like this is just one of many pets.com moments to come
  - red-iron-pine 3y ago
    AI, but for dogs! [still gets $30M in VC funding because of course it does]
- ComplexSystems 3y ago
  Getting rid of nonsense descriptions is very sensible. Trying to set some kind of policy to prevent that is also sensible. Banning developers from internally using Copilot, a personal tool that is essentially a glorified autocomplete so you don't have to type as much, all because of "copyright infringement," "ethics" and "energy waste" concerns, is dumb. It is unrelated to the problem at hand, unenforceable, bizarrely overreaching, unnecessarily divisive and also dumb and I hate it.
  - growfeather 3y ago
    It’s like when these AIs were released someone threw a giant rock in the pond. It’s still rippling, but it’ll eventually settle down, because there’s obviously a middle ground, which is what you’ve described. I think we will get there.
  - superb_dev 3y ago
    How are any of those unrelated?
- rsynnott 3y ago
  I just can't stop giggling at the fact that the first response was a wordy, yet completely useless, answer from a magic robot.
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  AllTrails does this too, to an extend. When you create a route it asks for a couple of questions (think checkboxes). But it then writes it out as human written text as a way to make you believe someone has actually curated a piece of text describing this hike, which actually ends up being an overgrown trail on someone's private property. What's worse is that they have the condensed information and decide to make it harder to consume.
brodo 3y ago
That bot responding to the issue about bots writing nonsense… Satire is dead.
- op00to 3y ago
  Wait … that’s a real bot? Like not a joke bot that shows up in AI related conversations? Holy moley.
- mostlysimilar 3y ago
  It's also inherited the internet's passive aggressiveness. Check out this line: > Haha, I'm glad you're finding this interaction amusing!
nonrandomstring 3y ago
It's damaging to reputation. and that's a concern I don't see being considered here. We had a vote on our project to stop using AI generated images [0]. A central reason was "reputation". It's a PR move because ordinary people are coming to associate AI with really bad things. If they see us using AI for icons, why would they not assume the rest of the content is AI generated too? It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong. I think what we're hearing in this thread is mostly a developer viewpoint. Try to see it like the customers see it. Of course using AI makes many tasks easier. Changing tack is a schlep because I have to go back an replace the old instances. Honestly I'm almost regretting the decision and shudder to think what this accumulated debt would be like with a couple million lines of code and docs instead of a dozen pictures. Seems very courageous of them to make a policy choice early. [0] https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/nomoreai https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/nomoreai
- jddj 3y ago
  > If they see us using AI for icons, why would they not assume the rest of the content is AI generated too? This was raised in that linked thread and is a completely valid concern. Who could look at that package manager and feel confident about its other design decisions even if it wasn't largely AI generated itself?
- ekidd 3y ago
  > It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong. I think what we're hearing in this thread is mostly a developer viewpoint. Try to see it like the customers see it. As an open source developer, I have complex feelings about users who act like they're "customers," entitled to make demands of me. (Unless they are, in fact, paying customers. Paying customers are great, but they're often not the goal of most of my projects.) The stuff I write on my own time, I write first and foremost for myself. I'm happy to share it with other people, but that's a gift. Sometimes sharing will get a little scene going, and we can all have fun together. But I certainly don't spend $400+/year to "code sign" my binaries for MacOS and Windows. 90% of time, if I hear from a Windows user, it's because they're upset with me and they want something. And I will often deliberately avoid advertising certain tools, because I have zero desire to spend my life providing free tech support. I'd rather have 100 users who were into what I was trying to do, than 10,000 unpaying "customers" where I had to worry about things like "It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong." I do that at work, not for free on the weekend. So if I want to enable CoPilot's auto-complete when designing a new file format, then eh, I really don't care if this makes some user suddenly upset and unwilling to use my project. I'm happy to label things clearly so that they know what they're getting and they can make an informed decision. But they're not my customers unless they paid me money.
madeofpalk 3y ago
Is pkgxdev related in any way to Gentoo?
nl 3y ago
This doesn't seem to be related to Gentoo? The linked mailing less message explicitly says their policy won't apply to upstream packages.
rsynnott 3y ago
Sadly, looks like they've removed the generated stuff; they had some gloriously bonkers stuff. The generated image for RabbitMQ, in particular, was just amazing.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Reading through the linked thread at https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/issues/5358 I'm in total agreement with Gentoo.

constantcrying 3y ago

Yes, something like that absolutely should be avoided at all cost. Genuinely in disbelief what I was reading in that thread. How do people think that an autogenerated nonsense description is better than not describing the software at all?

suprfsat 3y ago
He can't even invert a binary tree on a whiteboard.
jddj 3y ago
Feels like this is just one of many pets.com moments to come
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  AI, but for dogs! [still gets $30M in VC funding because of course it does]
ComplexSystems 3y ago
Getting rid of nonsense descriptions is very sensible. Trying to set some kind of policy to prevent that is also sensible. Banning developers from internally using Copilot, a personal tool that is essentially a glorified autocomplete so you don't have to type as much, all because of "copyright infringement," "ethics" and "energy waste" concerns, is dumb. It is unrelated to the problem at hand, unenforceable, bizarrely overreaching, unnecessarily divisive and also dumb and I hate it.
- growfeather 3y ago
  It’s like when these AIs were released someone threw a giant rock in the pond. It’s still rippling, but it’ll eventually settle down, because there’s obviously a middle ground, which is what you’ve described. I think we will get there.
- superb_dev 3y ago
  How are any of those unrelated?
rsynnott 3y ago
I just can't stop giggling at the fact that the first response was a wordy, yet completely useless, answer from a magic robot.
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
AllTrails does this too, to an extend. When you create a route it asks for a couple of questions (think checkboxes). But it then writes it out as human written text as a way to make you believe someone has actually curated a piece of text describing this hike, which actually ends up being an overgrown trail on someone's private property. What's worse is that they have the condensed information and decide to make it harder to consume.

brodo 3y ago

That bot responding to the issue about bots writing nonsense… Satire is dead.

op00to 3y ago
Wait … that’s a real bot? Like not a joke bot that shows up in AI related conversations? Holy moley.
mostlysimilar 3y ago
It's also inherited the internet's passive aggressiveness. Check out this line: > Haha, I'm glad you're finding this interaction amusing!

nonrandomstring 3y ago

It's damaging to reputation. and that's a concern I don't see being considered here. We had a vote on our project to stop using AI generated images [0]. A central reason was "reputation". It's a PR move because ordinary people are coming to associate AI with really bad things. If they see us using AI for icons, why would they not assume the rest of the content is AI generated too? It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong. I think what we're hearing in this thread is mostly a developer viewpoint. Try to see it like the customers see it. Of course using AI makes many tasks easier. Changing tack is a schlep because I have to go back an replace the old instances. Honestly I'm almost regretting the decision and shudder to think what this accumulated debt would be like with a couple million lines of code and docs instead of a dozen pictures. Seems very courageous of them to make a policy choice early. [0] https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/nomoreai https://cybershow.uk/blog/posts/nomoreai

jddj 3y ago
> If they see us using AI for icons, why would they not assume the rest of the content is AI generated too? This was raised in that linked thread and is a completely valid concern. Who could look at that package manager and feel confident about its other design decisions even if it wasn't largely AI generated itself?
ekidd 3y ago
> It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong. I think what we're hearing in this thread is mostly a developer viewpoint. Try to see it like the customers see it. As an open source developer, I have complex feelings about users who act like they're "customers," entitled to make demands of me. (Unless they are, in fact, paying customers. Paying customers are great, but they're often not the goal of most of my projects.) The stuff I write on my own time, I write first and foremost for myself. I'm happy to share it with other people, but that's a gift. Sometimes sharing will get a little scene going, and we can all have fun together. But I certainly don't spend $400+/year to "code sign" my binaries for MacOS and Windows. 90% of time, if I hear from a Windows user, it's because they're upset with me and they want something. And I will often deliberately avoid advertising certain tools, because I have zero desire to spend my life providing free tech support. I'd rather have 100 users who were into what I was trying to do, than 10,000 unpaying "customers" where I had to worry about things like "It doesn't matter whether the general public are right or wrong." I do that at work, not for free on the weekend. So if I want to enable CoPilot's auto-complete when designing a new file format, then eh, I really don't care if this makes some user suddenly upset and unwilling to use my project. I'm happy to label things clearly so that they know what they're getting and they can make an informed decision. But they're not my customers unless they paid me money.

madeofpalk 3y ago

Is pkgxdev related in any way to Gentoo?

nl 3y ago

This doesn't seem to be related to Gentoo? The linked mailing less message explicitly says their policy won't apply to upstream packages.

rsynnott 3y ago

Sadly, looks like they've removed the generated stuff; they had some gloriously bonkers stuff. The generated image for RabbitMQ, in particular, was just amazing.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]