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No, not at all. The styles don't change of its own sake, they change as people come up with ideas on how to address the problems of the last one. Each iteration

by mrtksn 3y ago

No, not at all. The styles don't change of its own sake, they change as people come up with ideas on how to address the problems of the last one. Each iteration solves something only to create its own problems that will be solved by the next iteration. Also, people revisit old ideas all the time. Problem solving chain is only one force, there's also the desire force. As time change, people desire different things. At one point people may desire order if the world is too chaotic only to desire freedom later on when the world becomes too strict and rigid when trying to get things into order and all that reflects into the design of everything. Another force would be economy and technology, old ideas that didn't work because the tech wasn't there yet are revisited or designs can be optimised for cost when times are tough. Tiny demons carved by hand on the facade are nice but when the demand for just getting into the plane at the cheapest cost is strong you can't make you airports to look like 1800s train stations.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> The styles don't change of its own sake, they change as people come up with ideas on how to address the problems of the last one. I don't think this bit is true, or at least I don't believe these are "problems" being solved, when it comes to art. There are no problems, only changes. That's why being derivative is bad. It's a drive for change for its own sake.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Well, design is not something that exists on its own sake. Just like with UI design in computers, product or architectural/interior design solves problems. Aesthetics is a component of it but, function and communication is too. People want big windows, designers figure it out. People want cheap places that can be reconfigured for function, designers figure it out, people want cheap sunglasses and designers figure it out, people want watches that makes them look serious and designers figure it out, - you get the idea. They do all that within the framework of technology and materials and as the tech and materials availability change they find new solutions. BTW, this idea of "designers just make eye candy" is something I keep seeing in the AI Hype train folks. They enter a prompt and the AI generates an image of, let's say a chair that looks cool at first glance and they think that AI is ready to take away the design jobs. They are deeply mistaken because they have no idea what the designers actually do and what it takes to design a product and no, it's not about coming up with something to sit on and looks of a particular type, out of the blue.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > They enter a prompt and the AI generates an image of, let's say a chair that looks cool at first glance and they think that AI is ready to take away the design jobs Well, I'd say this is wrong, but not for that reason. The advances you list are all really engineering and materials science advances. Once an engineer shows you how to design a skyscraper using a framed tubes, you can draw 100 of them. AI might be able to do the drawing, but it probably won't be doing the structural engineering / materials science in the same ways.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      It works the other way around, the designers design and the engineers are figuring out how to build it. Unless of course you can shove it down the throat of the customers, then you can have engineers make you an apparatus and call it a product. The designers usually have some understanding on what's possible and they work with the engineers to tweak their design for feasibility. No one cares about the 100 hundred drawings of skyscrapers. The soviets did it with the commie blocks, although practical its nowhere nearly as desirable as having a neighbourhood designed by people thinking beyond structural engineering.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > people thinking beyond structural engineering It's not "beyond". It's just a different job, and generally speaking, one with a lower bar to entry. Doesn't mean it's not useful, but I think it's silly to talk as though this sort of design is so significant. Plenty of ugly buildings exist; all designed by architects.
        mrtksn 3y ago
        Well, these days you plug the numbers into the computer and can tell you how to build your design. For most purposes, the engineering is there only because of associations or organisations lobbying the government making it compulsory. It's not an original work after all, the computations are modelled into the software and it tells you if it will meet the requirements.

by mrtksn 3y ago

robertlagrant 3y ago

> The styles don't change of its own sake, they change as people come up with ideas on how to address the problems of the last one. I don't think this bit is true, or at least I don't believe these are "problems" being solved, when it comes to art. There are no problems, only changes. That's why being derivative is bad. It's a drive for change for its own sake.

mrtksn 3y ago
Well, design is not something that exists on its own sake. Just like with UI design in computers, product or architectural/interior design solves problems. Aesthetics is a component of it but, function and communication is too. People want big windows, designers figure it out. People want cheap places that can be reconfigured for function, designers figure it out, people want cheap sunglasses and designers figure it out, people want watches that makes them look serious and designers figure it out, - you get the idea. They do all that within the framework of technology and materials and as the tech and materials availability change they find new solutions. BTW, this idea of "designers just make eye candy" is something I keep seeing in the AI Hype train folks. They enter a prompt and the AI generates an image of, let's say a chair that looks cool at first glance and they think that AI is ready to take away the design jobs. They are deeply mistaken because they have no idea what the designers actually do and what it takes to design a product and no, it's not about coming up with something to sit on and looks of a particular type, out of the blue.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > They enter a prompt and the AI generates an image of, let's say a chair that looks cool at first glance and they think that AI is ready to take away the design jobs Well, I'd say this is wrong, but not for that reason. The advances you list are all really engineering and materials science advances. Once an engineer shows you how to design a skyscraper using a framed tubes, you can draw 100 of them. AI might be able to do the drawing, but it probably won't be doing the structural engineering / materials science in the same ways.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    It works the other way around, the designers design and the engineers are figuring out how to build it. Unless of course you can shove it down the throat of the customers, then you can have engineers make you an apparatus and call it a product. The designers usually have some understanding on what's possible and they work with the engineers to tweak their design for feasibility. No one cares about the 100 hundred drawings of skyscrapers. The soviets did it with the commie blocks, although practical its nowhere nearly as desirable as having a neighbourhood designed by people thinking beyond structural engineering.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > people thinking beyond structural engineering It's not "beyond". It's just a different job, and generally speaking, one with a lower bar to entry. Doesn't mean it's not useful, but I think it's silly to talk as though this sort of design is so significant. Plenty of ugly buildings exist; all designed by architects.
      - mrtksn 3y ago
        Well, these days you plug the numbers into the computer and can tell you how to build your design. For most purposes, the engineering is there only because of associations or organisations lobbying the government making it compulsory. It's not an original work after all, the computations are modelled into the software and it tells you if it will meet the requirements.