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Sourcing the raw material of bank notes from Nepal? Seems a bit off from an environmental standpoint by hauling materials halfway across the globe from Himalaya

Sourcing the raw material of bank notes from Nepal? Seems a bit off from an environmental standpoint by hauling materials halfway across the globe from Himalaya. How about plastic notes? They are durable, recyclable, and because they are money, not likely to end up in our oceans as wastes.

MildlySerious 2y ago
Plastic doesn't seem like a good solution, considering that notes are moved, stretched, flexed a lot and endure a lot of friction. Seems like a needless source for more plastic particles shedding into the environment.
- a5withtrrs 2y ago
  You might be surprised to learn that a lot of the world uses polymer banknotes which are siignificantly more durable and last a lot longer than traditional 'paper' based currencies. The are incredibly hard to tear/break and they do not wear out or stretch. We've been using these in Australia since 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote Having handled a fair amount of US currency I can say it _feels_ disgusting to handle after a certain amount of wear and often reminds me of a moist tissue. It also doesn't help that visually the notes all look very similar (as opposed to on polymer notes which have significantly different appearances and colours)
  - codersfocus 2y ago
    The national institution that made them (CSIRO) also held the patent on WiFi. Among many other inventions. Very interesting organization of Australias, and wish we had something like it in the US.
  - MildlySerious 2y ago
    I'm aware it's being done already. But I'm not sure it would be a good starting point when designing a new set of notes. Euro banknotes are mostly made from cotton, and a lot of thought and effort is going into reducing the environmental footprint. The most circulated denominations last on average four years, the rest significantly longer I presume. How does that compare to polymer based banknotes?
    - 1jbdg 2y ago
      In Canada they last 8-16 years… polymer notes are unequivocally better. Corruption and inertia is the only reason they are not everywhere. As to plastic pollution, banknotes are already a closed, circular loop and hence you get the miracle properties of plastic without the downside.
      - pests 2y ago
        I think the concern was with the plastic money shedding micro plastics or threads as it slowly degrades over time, like we're finding other plastic does like our clothing. Not saying enough to take out of circulation, but does it shed any particles during its life?
        1jbdg 2y ago
        Does it shed particles? In a world of absolutism yes they would. I don’t know if there are actually any studies but fyi cotton notes will also have plastic features and a synthetic, uv cured varnish to try and get some extra life (although far less than polymer) so also ’shed’. Banknotes are regularly inspected and worn or damaged notes are pulled - they really are the perfect product for plastic.
        FinalBriefing 2y ago
        By weight though, it's a lot less plastic being put out there. Is it worse than clothing? Maybe not, but I'd continue to be skeptical about it until some studies have been done.
        1jbdg 2y ago
        But the solid piece of plastic isn’t shedding, it’s encased in ink and will be removed with set levels of ink wear. The synthetic varnishes, features etc are the same with paper so you’re putting out 4x the amount of ‘at risk’ shedding material due to the longer life of polymer. Plastic = bad is a disaster for co2 emissions and ironically microplastics since the alternatives are heavier and don’t last as long. Meaning more transport, distribution etc and tires are one of the biggest sources of microplastics.
bsza 2y ago
It’s not halfway across the globe. Not even quarter way. Meanwhile, the US one dollar note is made with flax imported from Belgium (also not halfway across the globe, but farther away).
- hx833001 2y ago
  The US dollar is only 25% linen, 75% cotton.
- wenyuanyu 2y ago
  No, they are not flying non-stop from Himalaya as you assume. I did a rough calculation using [0][1]. Not including the land part, just the sea route, it is 5396 nm [0], roughly 9993 km and that is indeed halfway the globe. By the way, from Antwerp, Belgium to Boston, MA is 3607 nm, roughly 6680 km, much shorter actually. - [0] http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=4063&b=4693&c=Port%20of%20Kolkata,%20India&d=Port%20of%20Osaka,%20Japan http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=4063&b=4693&c=Port%20of%20Ko... - [1] http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=3042&b=682&c=Port%20of%20Antwerp,%20Belgium&d=Port%20of%20Boston,%20United%20States http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=3042&b=682&c=Port%20of%20Ant...
  - OisinMoran 2y ago
    That is roughly a quarter the way around the globe
    - hifromwork 2y ago
      Not a native speaker, but this got me thinking: how would you interpret "halfway" in this sentence: >It’s not halfway across the globe Equator is 40k km long, so it makes sense getting "halfway" there would be 20k km. But the "half" is of something, and it doesn't sound right that "at the end of the globe" would be the same place you started with. Especially since being "on the other end of the world" means roughly, well, opposite side of the globe. So I think OP is justified in defining "across the globe" as the "opposite side of the world", and then "halfway across the globe" is "quarter the length of equator away". But maybe I'm overthinking it.
justsomehnguy 2y ago
> from an environmental standpoint From an environmental standpoint all banknotes should be shredded and burned and everyone should use contactless means of payment.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  Why? Are you sure it is more environmental to keep all the computers, the network and other related infrastructure running (powered on, security updated, etc.) than it is to print and distribute banknotes every so many years and associated costs with that?
  - justsomehnguy 2y ago
    Because we already keep all the computers, the network and payment processing anyway. Like 99% of physical payments are already involves computers anyway, even if it is done with a paper/plastic note. So it's not "replace notes with computers" but "get rid of notes because computers are there anyway". Anecdote: I don't have a card linked to Uber, so I pay with a cash or a C2C transfer. In the last two years if I ask the driver if they prefer cash or C2C they consistently prefer C2C - because it's way less hassle for them and also they often claim they are short on change. And in the another anecdote I still carry cash on me but I use it only for a taxi rides and a one local smallware shop, so they wouldn't need to pay the processing fee for the 50c things.
- ericfr11 2y ago
  I agree. The impact (cost, energy...) is nothing compared to TikTok video streaming. Economy of scale
- pineaux 2y ago
  Is this true tho?
- usr1106 2y ago
  I doubt that. Computing has a greenhouse effect similar to air traffic. Edit: While true that's maybe not a good argument. Financial processing hardly is the biggest culprit. The worst impact / benefit ratio are probably video and ad distribution. However, if you think how much Chinese (and similar) goods a $20 or 50€ note buys during its lifetime the impact of shipping the banknote material seems negligible.
hoseja 2y ago
Japan has a long tradition of advanced papermaking.

MildlySerious 2y ago

Plastic doesn't seem like a good solution, considering that notes are moved, stretched, flexed a lot and endure a lot of friction. Seems like a needless source for more plastic particles shedding into the environment.

a5withtrrs 2y ago
You might be surprised to learn that a lot of the world uses polymer banknotes which are siignificantly more durable and last a lot longer than traditional 'paper' based currencies. The are incredibly hard to tear/break and they do not wear out or stretch. We've been using these in Australia since 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_banknote Having handled a fair amount of US currency I can say it _feels_ disgusting to handle after a certain amount of wear and often reminds me of a moist tissue. It also doesn't help that visually the notes all look very similar (as opposed to on polymer notes which have significantly different appearances and colours)
- codersfocus 2y ago
  The national institution that made them (CSIRO) also held the patent on WiFi. Among many other inventions. Very interesting organization of Australias, and wish we had something like it in the US.
- MildlySerious 2y ago
  I'm aware it's being done already. But I'm not sure it would be a good starting point when designing a new set of notes. Euro banknotes are mostly made from cotton, and a lot of thought and effort is going into reducing the environmental footprint. The most circulated denominations last on average four years, the rest significantly longer I presume. How does that compare to polymer based banknotes?
  - 1jbdg 2y ago
    In Canada they last 8-16 years… polymer notes are unequivocally better. Corruption and inertia is the only reason they are not everywhere. As to plastic pollution, banknotes are already a closed, circular loop and hence you get the miracle properties of plastic without the downside.
    - pests 2y ago
      I think the concern was with the plastic money shedding micro plastics or threads as it slowly degrades over time, like we're finding other plastic does like our clothing. Not saying enough to take out of circulation, but does it shed any particles during its life?
      - 1jbdg 2y ago
        Does it shed particles? In a world of absolutism yes they would. I don’t know if there are actually any studies but fyi cotton notes will also have plastic features and a synthetic, uv cured varnish to try and get some extra life (although far less than polymer) so also ’shed’. Banknotes are regularly inspected and worn or damaged notes are pulled - they really are the perfect product for plastic.
        FinalBriefing 2y ago
        By weight though, it's a lot less plastic being put out there. Is it worse than clothing? Maybe not, but I'd continue to be skeptical about it until some studies have been done.
        1jbdg 2y ago
        But the solid piece of plastic isn’t shedding, it’s encased in ink and will be removed with set levels of ink wear. The synthetic varnishes, features etc are the same with paper so you’re putting out 4x the amount of ‘at risk’ shedding material due to the longer life of polymer. Plastic = bad is a disaster for co2 emissions and ironically microplastics since the alternatives are heavier and don’t last as long. Meaning more transport, distribution etc and tires are one of the biggest sources of microplastics.

bsza 2y ago

It’s not halfway across the globe. Not even quarter way. Meanwhile, the US one dollar note is made with flax imported from Belgium (also not halfway across the globe, but farther away).

hx833001 2y ago
The US dollar is only 25% linen, 75% cotton.
wenyuanyu 2y ago
No, they are not flying non-stop from Himalaya as you assume. I did a rough calculation using [0][1]. Not including the land part, just the sea route, it is 5396 nm [0], roughly 9993 km and that is indeed halfway the globe. By the way, from Antwerp, Belgium to Boston, MA is 3607 nm, roughly 6680 km, much shorter actually. - [0] http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=4063&b=4693&c=Port%20of%20Kolkata,%20India&d=Port%20of%20Osaka,%20Japan http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=4063&b=4693&c=Port%20of%20Ko... - [1] http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=3042&b=682&c=Port%20of%20Antwerp,%20Belgium&d=Port%20of%20Boston,%20United%20States http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=3042&b=682&c=Port%20of%20Ant...
- OisinMoran 2y ago
  That is roughly a quarter the way around the globe
  - hifromwork 2y ago
    Not a native speaker, but this got me thinking: how would you interpret "halfway" in this sentence: >It’s not halfway across the globe Equator is 40k km long, so it makes sense getting "halfway" there would be 20k km. But the "half" is of something, and it doesn't sound right that "at the end of the globe" would be the same place you started with. Especially since being "on the other end of the world" means roughly, well, opposite side of the globe. So I think OP is justified in defining "across the globe" as the "opposite side of the world", and then "halfway across the globe" is "quarter the length of equator away". But maybe I'm overthinking it.

justsomehnguy 2y ago

> from an environmental standpoint From an environmental standpoint all banknotes should be shredded and burned and everyone should use contactless means of payment.

themaninthedark 2y ago
Why? Are you sure it is more environmental to keep all the computers, the network and other related infrastructure running (powered on, security updated, etc.) than it is to print and distribute banknotes every so many years and associated costs with that?
- justsomehnguy 2y ago
  Because we already keep all the computers, the network and payment processing anyway. Like 99% of physical payments are already involves computers anyway, even if it is done with a paper/plastic note. So it's not "replace notes with computers" but "get rid of notes because computers are there anyway". Anecdote: I don't have a card linked to Uber, so I pay with a cash or a C2C transfer. In the last two years if I ask the driver if they prefer cash or C2C they consistently prefer C2C - because it's way less hassle for them and also they often claim they are short on change. And in the another anecdote I still carry cash on me but I use it only for a taxi rides and a one local smallware shop, so they wouldn't need to pay the processing fee for the 50c things.
ericfr11 2y ago
I agree. The impact (cost, energy...) is nothing compared to TikTok video streaming. Economy of scale
pineaux 2y ago
Is this true tho?
usr1106 2y ago
I doubt that. Computing has a greenhouse effect similar to air traffic. Edit: While true that's maybe not a good argument. Financial processing hardly is the biggest culprit. The worst impact / benefit ratio are probably video and ad distribution. However, if you think how much Chinese (and similar) goods a $20 or 50€ note buys during its lifetime the impact of shipping the banknote material seems negligible.

hoseja 2y ago

Japan has a long tradition of advanced papermaking.