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We asked what is "self respect?" in a recent thread [0]. Here's a fresh definition; It's the difference in the exchange rate between dollars and the alternativ

We asked what is "self respect?" in a recent thread [0]. Here's a fresh definition; It's the difference in the exchange rate between dollars and the alternative currency of attention and personal data. I've been on the Internet since it existed (well, mid 80s) and never had a problem that some things must be paid for. But for whatever reason (the corrupt banking system?) micropayments never got traction. So, as you say, alternative economies have arisen. Some people have been happy to treat their data and time like the price of a cup of coffee. For me, I would not give my attention or personal data for hundreds of thousands of dollars. So each person has their own "price for which they will sell themselves", and in the digital world that is what "self-respect" means. It also means the determination to stick by that self valuation. This gives corporations an incentive to aggressively drive down self-respect - to get a better exchange rate. BigTech not only wants to colonise your devices, it wants to colonise your dignity, to undermine your confidence, independence and sense of self-worth. No wonder there is a mental health crisis arising from digital technology. Sadly for BigTech things are moving the other way. Minimum levels of dignity and self-respect are literally being legislated. But also (perhaps consequently) people are waking up and realising the real value of their attention and private affairs. A hope is that this forces BigTech to turn on the banking system and financial regulators, so we can finally get universal, frictionless anonymous micropayments and put this while tawdry "surveillance capitalism" episode behind us. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39999713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39999713

karma_pharmer 2y ago
It also means the determination to stick by that self valuation. Current laws impose an unpayable tax on micropayments with money-settled valuations but no tax whatsoever on micropayments with attention-settled or personal-data-settled valuations. It's not a "self-valuation" when you have such an extreme level of state intervention. I'm not sure it's even a market.
- nonrandomstring 2y ago
  That's interesting point. EDIT: but you removed your critique of "resonable" which lessens my reply. All said, your right... its not a market. But in a sense the truly-self respecting position is unashamedly "unreasonable" by definition. It's "selfish" and often blinded by it. It says, "reasonableness" is over-rated. :) Indeed there's always a tension between self-regarding and other-regarding values. Take markets, they do it to us too. A company can be very confident and bullish about its value but the market says otherwise can set it into downward spiral. And as you say governments, taxes and legal impositions do the same. And yet there's always the possibility for bloody mindedness, or Churchillian "doggedness". Not to deny reality, but to resist it with every fibre and see a longer term picture. From the outside what is obstinate, unyielding looks ugly, even childish. But internally perseverance, resoluteness and tenacity can feel amazing, and so often triumph in the end. I'd say many of the most successful business people are completely "unreasonable", as are political figures like Nelson Mandela for whom 27 years in prison is just part of the journey. It comes down to that George Bernard Shaw quote; "" The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ""

karma_pharmer 2y ago

It also means the determination to stick by that self valuation. Current laws impose an unpayable tax on micropayments with money-settled valuations but no tax whatsoever on micropayments with attention-settled or personal-data-settled valuations. It's not a "self-valuation" when you have such an extreme level of state intervention. I'm not sure it's even a market.

nonrandomstring 2y ago
That's interesting point. EDIT: but you removed your critique of "resonable" which lessens my reply. All said, your right... its not a market. But in a sense the truly-self respecting position is unashamedly "unreasonable" by definition. It's "selfish" and often blinded by it. It says, "reasonableness" is over-rated. :) Indeed there's always a tension between self-regarding and other-regarding values. Take markets, they do it to us too. A company can be very confident and bullish about its value but the market says otherwise can set it into downward spiral. And as you say governments, taxes and legal impositions do the same. And yet there's always the possibility for bloody mindedness, or Churchillian "doggedness". Not to deny reality, but to resist it with every fibre and see a longer term picture. From the outside what is obstinate, unyielding looks ugly, even childish. But internally perseverance, resoluteness and tenacity can feel amazing, and so often triumph in the end. I'd say many of the most successful business people are completely "unreasonable", as are political figures like Nelson Mandela for whom 27 years in prison is just part of the journey. It comes down to that George Bernard Shaw quote; "" The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ""