3 ms·

Paradox of Plenty

14 points by nimzoLarsen 3y ago

southernplaces7 3y ago
Contrary examples: The United States and Canada are both countries with an insane abundance of many natural resources, yet developed quite robustly. Several European states had a similar experience though to a slightly lesser degree of natural resource diversity. Germany, Finland and the UK come to mind at least for specific resources like coal, and oil in the case of Finland. The Arab petro states are also economically well off despite their financial dependence on revenues from the world's most globally vital natural resource. (we can forego mentioning their state of political development though). One the other end, there are many countries with few natural resources worth a damn that also happen to be severely underdeveloped, and political basket cases.
- BizarroLand 3y ago
  IDK. I just recently passed through Pine Ridge, SD and what I saw there was on par with just about any non-warzone levels of poverty shown in movies. Dogs and trash roam the streets freely, most people either walking or riding in cars that at best could be called "unsafe", dirt everywhere, houses covered in graffiti or just straight up collapsing from lack of repair. The US has a huge number of insanely wealthy people and a large percentage of people "above the poverty line", but the people under the poverty line live a life that is almost a distant from you as you are from a typical multimillionaire, and there are easily millions of them.
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    Im the last to deny that the U.S. does have poverty pockets that can sometimes bee entire lagoons, but you can't fairly compare it to most of the world's third world countries in all but the most extreme, relatively isolated examples. Truly, go live in a developing country, even one that's considered decently wealthy by the standards of developing countries (Mexico is a good example) and you'll see the difference very quickly if you leave any of the compact, wealthy, tourist-oriented bubbles of society. I live in such a country and comparing it to the U.S. as a whole is absurd. Even most of poor America is absurdly wealthy and reasonably well run by the standards of much of the world, though as your example shows, exceptions do apply, though they're not always by forced circumstance so much as unconscious choice.
nimzoLarsen 3y ago
Paradox of plenty: Countries with an abundance of natural resources tend to have less economic growth and worse development outcomes than countries with fewer natural resources.
from-nibly 3y ago
I mean is that not because they get exploited by other countries?
YugyDugan 3y ago
Is it not obvious that scarcity provides the harsh and unforgiving conditions for the natural selection of positive traits? Taking Europe, for example, our ancestors would not have survived without their adaptation to the climate and its consequences, breeding cooperation, empathy, industry, invention, efficiency, etc. A frivolous, impulsive, unintelligent people seeking immediate gratification would not have survived the winter.
- _nalply 3y ago
  True but a bit too simple I think. In the article the Dutch disease is mentioned. It has three effects: 1. It makes the other exports less competitive (why bother with abundant resources?) 2. Imports financed by natural resources revenues increase, appreciating the currency (a double whammy for exports) 3. This causes a shift away from manufacture and similar industries rendering the economy more dependent on natural resources I also think natural resources can be grabbed by individuals more easily than the skilfulness of a people leading to higher income inequality.
- n4r9 3y ago
  > cooperation, empathy, industry, invention, efficiency, etc. A frivolous, impulsive, unintelligent people seeking immediate gratification ... Are these things that can be naturally selected for?
  - YugyDugan 3y ago
    You stopped reading just shy of your answer: >...would not have survived the winter.
    - n4r9 3y ago
      What I mean is, it's not clear that those traits are sufficiently genetic in basis for natural selection to occur. There may be more of a cultural incentive to encourage those traits.
      - 3y ago

14 points by nimzoLarsen 3y ago

Contrary examples: The United States and Canada are both countries with an insane abundance of many natural resources, yet developed quite robustly. Several European states had a similar experience though to a slightly lesser degree of natural resource diversity. Germany, Finland and the UK come to mind at least for specific resources like coal, and oil in the case of Finland. The Arab petro states are also economically well off despite their financial dependence on revenues from the world's most globally vital natural resource. (we can forego mentioning their state of political development though). One the other end, there are many countries with few natural resources worth a damn that also happen to be severely underdeveloped, and political basket cases.

BizarroLand 3y ago
IDK. I just recently passed through Pine Ridge, SD and what I saw there was on par with just about any non-warzone levels of poverty shown in movies. Dogs and trash roam the streets freely, most people either walking or riding in cars that at best could be called "unsafe", dirt everywhere, houses covered in graffiti or just straight up collapsing from lack of repair. The US has a huge number of insanely wealthy people and a large percentage of people "above the poverty line", but the people under the poverty line live a life that is almost a distant from you as you are from a typical multimillionaire, and there are easily millions of them.
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  Im the last to deny that the U.S. does have poverty pockets that can sometimes bee entire lagoons, but you can't fairly compare it to most of the world's third world countries in all but the most extreme, relatively isolated examples. Truly, go live in a developing country, even one that's considered decently wealthy by the standards of developing countries (Mexico is a good example) and you'll see the difference very quickly if you leave any of the compact, wealthy, tourist-oriented bubbles of society. I live in such a country and comparing it to the U.S. as a whole is absurd. Even most of poor America is absurdly wealthy and reasonably well run by the standards of much of the world, though as your example shows, exceptions do apply, though they're not always by forced circumstance so much as unconscious choice.

nimzoLarsen 3y ago

Paradox of plenty: Countries with an abundance of natural resources tend to have less economic growth and worse development outcomes than countries with fewer natural resources.

from-nibly 3y ago

I mean is that not because they get exploited by other countries?

YugyDugan 3y ago

Is it not obvious that scarcity provides the harsh and unforgiving conditions for the natural selection of positive traits? Taking Europe, for example, our ancestors would not have survived without their adaptation to the climate and its consequences, breeding cooperation, empathy, industry, invention, efficiency, etc. A frivolous, impulsive, unintelligent people seeking immediate gratification would not have survived the winter.

_nalply 3y ago
True but a bit too simple I think. In the article the Dutch disease is mentioned. It has three effects: 1. It makes the other exports less competitive (why bother with abundant resources?) 2. Imports financed by natural resources revenues increase, appreciating the currency (a double whammy for exports) 3. This causes a shift away from manufacture and similar industries rendering the economy more dependent on natural resources I also think natural resources can be grabbed by individuals more easily than the skilfulness of a people leading to higher income inequality.
n4r9 3y ago
> cooperation, empathy, industry, invention, efficiency, etc. A frivolous, impulsive, unintelligent people seeking immediate gratification ... Are these things that can be naturally selected for?
- YugyDugan 3y ago
  You stopped reading just shy of your answer: >...would not have survived the winter.
  - n4r9 3y ago
    What I mean is, it's not clear that those traits are sufficiently genetic in basis for natural selection to occur. There may be more of a cultural incentive to encourage those traits.
    - 3y ago