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Is "geofence bypass for region-locked content" actually “illicit”?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Is "geofence bypass for region-locked content" actually “illicit”? Yes, in practically every jurisdiction. It’s wilful breach of contract, tortious interference with the content distributor’s licensing schemes and copyright infringement.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  This is false, it is not illegal. You might be in violation of a specific contract, but that is far from it being illegal. For example Steam might ban you if you circumvent a region lock. Reason for that is that there are other legal requirements for them as a market place.
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    > This is false, it is not illegal. I highly doubt you know the laws in every region globally. This may be true in yours, but it's not a good idea to make such blanket, objective statements online.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Unless you have any explicit court case decisions to the contrary, I'm calling bullshit. I did a simple Google search and could not find any examples of someone being sued or prosecuted for region bypass.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Unless you have any explicit court case decisions to the contrary I also don’t think there is prosecutorial precedent for murdering someone with a sea cucumber; that doesn’t make it licit (or legal).
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      When was the last time you heard of anyone murdering someone with a sea cucumber? People obviously use VPNs all the time for region bypass, and have for years, so if anyone had an issue with it it surely would have had some relevant legal proceedings. Laws only mean what courts say they mean. Besides that, I have simply never heard any argument of region bypass being illegal or otherwise illicit, and you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.
- chrisfinazzo 3y ago
  A notable exception being the use of a VPN to access region-protected content. INAL, but while this use case might violate ToS, the case law suggests that courts deem this to be fair use provided you don't breech other laws in the process (e.g, copyrights).
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    Agree that it's the digital equivalent of jaywalking.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > tortious interference with the content distributor’s licensing schemes No it's not. Tortious interference with a business relationship is no doubt what you're referring to here, but it's a long bow with multiple layers of indirection. It is "intentionally acting to prevent someone from successfully establishing or maintaining business relationships with others". Miramax, as a content distributor, might license their content to Netflix. You are a customer of Netflix. Now say you are a customer of NordVPN. For one, NordVPN isn't trying to prevent you maintaining a business relationship with Netflix. Nor is it trying to prevent Netflix having a business relationship with Miramax. NordVPN may provide you means by which you can choose to be in violation of your TOS with Netflix. It's not acting to ensure you are. Netflix doesn't have to -allow- this, hence VPN/proxy detection. But they have recourse, drop you as a customer, for you, the customer's, actions, not for NordVPN's actions. Miramax can't argue that NordVPN acted to interfere with their licensing scheme with Netflix.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Miramax can't argue that NordVPN acted to interfere with their licensing scheme with Netflix No, but they could argue that the VPN user interfered with their licensing scheme. (If everyone in a region circumvented geoblocks, why would someone in that region pay for regional rights to that content?) They wouldn’t, because it’s not worth it.

> Is "geofence bypass for region-locked content" actually “illicit”? Yes, in practically every jurisdiction. It’s wilful breach of contract, tortious interference with the content distributor’s licensing schemes and copyright infringement.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
This is false, it is not illegal. You might be in violation of a specific contract, but that is far from it being illegal. For example Steam might ban you if you circumvent a region lock. Reason for that is that there are other legal requirements for them as a market place.
- averageRoyalty 3y ago
  > This is false, it is not illegal. I highly doubt you know the laws in every region globally. This may be true in yours, but it's not a good idea to make such blanket, objective statements online.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Unless you have any explicit court case decisions to the contrary, I'm calling bullshit. I did a simple Google search and could not find any examples of someone being sued or prosecuted for region bypass.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Unless you have any explicit court case decisions to the contrary I also don’t think there is prosecutorial precedent for murdering someone with a sea cucumber; that doesn’t make it licit (or legal).
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    When was the last time you heard of anyone murdering someone with a sea cucumber? People obviously use VPNs all the time for region bypass, and have for years, so if anyone had an issue with it it surely would have had some relevant legal proceedings. Laws only mean what courts say they mean. Besides that, I have simply never heard any argument of region bypass being illegal or otherwise illicit, and you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.
chrisfinazzo 3y ago
A notable exception being the use of a VPN to access region-protected content. INAL, but while this use case might violate ToS, the case law suggests that courts deem this to be fair use provided you don't breech other laws in the process (e.g, copyrights).
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Agree that it's the digital equivalent of jaywalking.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> tortious interference with the content distributor’s licensing schemes No it's not. Tortious interference with a business relationship is no doubt what you're referring to here, but it's a long bow with multiple layers of indirection. It is "intentionally acting to prevent someone from successfully establishing or maintaining business relationships with others". Miramax, as a content distributor, might license their content to Netflix. You are a customer of Netflix. Now say you are a customer of NordVPN. For one, NordVPN isn't trying to prevent you maintaining a business relationship with Netflix. Nor is it trying to prevent Netflix having a business relationship with Miramax. NordVPN may provide you means by which you can choose to be in violation of your TOS with Netflix. It's not acting to ensure you are. Netflix doesn't have to -allow- this, hence VPN/proxy detection. But they have recourse, drop you as a customer, for you, the customer's, actions, not for NordVPN's actions. Miramax can't argue that NordVPN acted to interfere with their licensing scheme with Netflix.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Miramax can't argue that NordVPN acted to interfere with their licensing scheme with Netflix No, but they could argue that the VPN user interfered with their licensing scheme. (If everyone in a region circumvented geoblocks, why would someone in that region pay for regional rights to that content?) They wouldn’t, because it’s not worth it.