3 ms·

If externalities were factored in, they shouldn't be able to afford gas either then...

dheera 3y ago
I agree with you, but the externalities hit them 30 years later, and the majority of the population are trying to figure out how to even make it for another 6 months (financially).
prepend 3y ago
Right, then they can’t afford to live. Telling people to stop after all this time is a non-starter unless you’re willing to militarily stop countries from burning oil.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Well, burning oil kills people, but they can't afford to defend themselves. When you're watching your kids die in your country's fifth freak heatwave/power outage in a year it will be little comfort to know that at least people in rich countries got to have cheap gas.
  - prepend 3y ago
    It’s not just rich people who have cheap gas. The issue is the billions of poor people who have cheap gas.
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      Certainly, but rich people use an awful lot more. Someone in Vietnam on a 50cc Honda is putting out less carbon than someone in Orange County with an Escalade.
      - prepend 3y ago
        There’s a lot more people in Vietnam than Orange County. And I expect making them stop using their motorcycle is harder as they have fewer or no alternatives.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  This is almost entirely a problem of shitty political leadership. There are solutions, and a transition is possible, if the emergency was treated like the emergency that it is. But this threaten very powerful established interests, and those interests have been remarkably adept at mobilizing themselves and spreading disinformation, fear, and doubt in the population. Even the most weak and financially friendly efforts are attacked and undermined. Like a carbon tax with a generous rebate -- like here in Canada, and a policy formerly advocated by conservative economists, but now a target of populist demagoguery and will likely be gone after the next election. Conservative and neo-liberal ideological strains have spent 40+ years steadfastly eliminating the ability of central governments to plan and have coordinated industrial/macro-economic strategies in the west -- something they mostly had after WWII. Now we desperately need it.
meristohm 3y ago
Yep. Gasoline is far too cheap. We've gotten used to it, taken it for granted, and that's a huge problem. We've degraded the land to the point where most of us can't find enough food locally and rely on food grown and shipped thanks to petroleum. To wean ourselves off will be painful, but not impossible. Building strong local community is a good start; I've got to know a few neighbors now in this rural area and we're starting to offer to pick up groceries for each other, thus reducing the car trips to town. Building trust goes a long way to not needing to do everything yourself.

I agree with you, but the externalities hit them 30 years later, and the majority of the population are trying to figure out how to even make it for another 6 months (financially).

prepend 3y ago

Right, then they can’t afford to live. Telling people to stop after all this time is a non-starter unless you’re willing to militarily stop countries from burning oil.

CalRobert 3y ago
Well, burning oil kills people, but they can't afford to defend themselves. When you're watching your kids die in your country's fifth freak heatwave/power outage in a year it will be little comfort to know that at least people in rich countries got to have cheap gas.
- prepend 3y ago
  It’s not just rich people who have cheap gas. The issue is the billions of poor people who have cheap gas.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Certainly, but rich people use an awful lot more. Someone in Vietnam on a 50cc Honda is putting out less carbon than someone in Orange County with an Escalade.
    - prepend 3y ago
      There’s a lot more people in Vietnam than Orange County. And I expect making them stop using their motorcycle is harder as they have fewer or no alternatives.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
This is almost entirely a problem of shitty political leadership. There are solutions, and a transition is possible, if the emergency was treated like the emergency that it is. But this threaten very powerful established interests, and those interests have been remarkably adept at mobilizing themselves and spreading disinformation, fear, and doubt in the population. Even the most weak and financially friendly efforts are attacked and undermined. Like a carbon tax with a generous rebate -- like here in Canada, and a policy formerly advocated by conservative economists, but now a target of populist demagoguery and will likely be gone after the next election. Conservative and neo-liberal ideological strains have spent 40+ years steadfastly eliminating the ability of central governments to plan and have coordinated industrial/macro-economic strategies in the west -- something they mostly had after WWII. Now we desperately need it.

meristohm 3y ago

Yep. Gasoline is far too cheap. We've gotten used to it, taken it for granted, and that's a huge problem. We've degraded the land to the point where most of us can't find enough food locally and rely on food grown and shipped thanks to petroleum. To wean ourselves off will be painful, but not impossible. Building strong local community is a good start; I've got to know a few neighbors now in this rural area and we're starting to offer to pick up groceries for each other, thus reducing the car trips to town. Building trust goes a long way to not needing to do everything yourself.