5 ms·

Devil's advocate: it is characteristically autistic to have episode names memorised like that, and it sort of is 'blurting out a series of words' if you don't k

by OJFord 3y ago

Devil's advocate: it is characteristically autistic to have episode names memorised like that, and it sort of is 'blurting out a series of words' if you don't know that's what it is; a more 'normal' answer might be more like a description of the episode or 'the one called [...]'. I think perhaps you can see that in Sam's assistance, he doesn't know the episode names, possibly he knows or expects that is an episode name, and is describing one he remembers that it probably names. I don't think there were necessarily saying that John just said a load of nonsense that didn't answer the question, just that it needed a bit of deciphering; that Sam helped explain what he meant to a non-fan.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Is that autistic, or is that just normal for someone who cares, and who actually has a favorite episode? I can't imagine not picking up the title after watching an episode a few times.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  It's definitely autistic to name drop the title to an audience of adults who likely don't remember anything about Sesame Street and being too literal. It shows the difference in cognitive ability between the brothers pretty well. The brother who seems to be doing better in daily life has a pretty good idea of what kind of answer a random person would expect.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - andoryuu 3y ago
    > When asked to name his favorite episode > It's definitely autistic to name drop the title to an audience of adults who likely don't remember If someone asks me to name an episode I'll assume they know the show, and that the name is sufficient. Because they asked for only that. Why can questions have an implicit "and tell me about it", but the answers cannot have an implicit "I assume you know which one it is"?
    - dmurray 3y ago
      You might be more likely to pick up on some context clues that this is an NPR reporter trying to make conversation about the topic she's just been told you're interested in, rather than a fellow obsessive fan of early-2000s children's TV.
      - andoryuu 3y ago
        I would probably explicitly ask if they want to know what the episode is about. But only after seeing their confused reaction to the silence after the first answer. And that's a maybe. If you want to know something, ask it. Not everyone wants (or is able) to bother with deciphering what you think internally. The person in the article has many issues. But I don't consider giving straight answer to a straight question being one of them. People expecting others to conform to their way of communication without making an effort to meet others halfway are the main issue.
- giantg2 3y ago
  If you just care, you'd probably say the "the episode called..." and maybe describe it for the person if you interpret their reaction as not understanding or recognizing it. Edit: why disagree? Not recognizing that someone wants more information, or that your communication doesn't carry enough context for a person to know what you're talking about is classic autism. If you're someone without autism and just care about the subject, you're more likely to recognize the social cues and add more context.
  - yterdy 3y ago
    Because the explicit query was, "What's your favorite episode?". It's frustrating to be accused of disordered thinking on your part when the actual issue is disordered expectations from the other party. What they actually should have asked was, "What happened during your favorite episode?", which might have produced the response given by the sibling. It's not like neurotypical people don't also experience this frustration with having to divine what people actually desire in any given quantum of communication. I would even offer that people speaking with those on the spectrum might be primed to be less generous and forgiving with that anticipatory instinct; they jump to, "This person is weird," instead of considering the ways in which their own communication style is wanting. The reason they can get away with it, and autistic people can't, is simply a matter of how many people like them are around to validate their subjective experience. See your given CS department/TTRPG club for the flipside of this dynamic. EDIT: Might also explain the phenomenon of smug, "What you ACTUALLY wanted was-" responsed on SO. We've trained people with precise thought to assume that anyone coming to them with questions doesn't actually know what they're trying to accomplish. We've created monsters.
    - notahacker 3y ago
      The query explicitly didn't include "Despite asking you about your preferences, I have no interest in why you prefer it so please refrain from commenting on that. Please don't waffle or ask me anything back, simply provide me with the title, and I will have all the information I need", so I don't think it's "disordered expectations" to assume that message wasn't conveyed by the question... Neurotypical communication 101 is that a casual conversation question about your favourite things is probably a cue for you to be enthusiastic and effusive about things you care about rather than a prompt for you provide names only, especially if the interlocutor is unlikely be evaluating your preferences using their own expert knowledge of the field. Sure, if nobody else steps in to provide further context any [neurotypical] interlocutor ought to be able to continue/rescue the conversation by asking followup questions about what happened in an episode and what is it about that episode that you like, but staccato answers offering a bare minimum of information is a communication preference (occasionally appropriate, more often not) rather than something inherently demanded by the question. (I'd agree that people probably judge responses slightly differently if they already know the person on the other side of the conversation is autistic, but in a situation like this it can work in their favour, since if I assume the person providing only names, titles and one word answers to my open and friendly questions is neurotypical, I'm going to assume they're subtly signalling that they dislike me...)
- OJFord 3y ago
  It's the expectation that that's a sufficient answer to the question I suppose. Yes it literally is, but... that is many people's autism in a nutshell really isn't it. Even if talking to another fan, a 'less autistic' dialogue might be like: B: Oh, me too, do you have a favourite episode? A: Abby Makes the Seasons Change, hands down, do you remember that one? B: Hmm, I'm not sure.. A: Oh, it's the one where [...]
tialaramex 3y ago
> it is characteristically autistic to have episode names memorised like that One of my colleagues recommended that our department invite somebody from outside to explain to us about "neurotypical" people so we can better accommodate their special needs at work. We don't seem to have many "neurotypical" people so hence the idea to get an outsider to do a talk. Maybe one of the things it would be good to understand is, are there actually lots of these "neurotypical" people or are they just bad at counting ?
scottlamb 3y ago
I think you're right in that when the reporter asked "What's your favorite episode?", the more autistic brother interpreted it literally as "What's the name of your favorite episode?" where other people typically re-interpret the question as "Could you describe your favorite episode in a few sentences?" But the autistic version seems perfectly valid, and shouldn't a reporter recognize a direct answer to his question and ask a follow-up if needed? I get the feeling instead he just stared blankly until someone else translated for him...why blame the autistic person for the reporter's poor communication?
- spongebobstoes 3y ago
  > why blame the autistic person for the reporter's poor communication? this specific sort of difficulty communicating is a daily reality for many autistic folks I believe that communication can often be fixed by either party, but is usually fixed by neither

by OJFord 3y ago

TeMPOraL 3y ago

Is that autistic, or is that just normal for someone who cares, and who actually has a favorite episode? I can't imagine not picking up the title after watching an episode a few times.

Barrin92 3y ago
It's definitely autistic to name drop the title to an audience of adults who likely don't remember anything about Sesame Street and being too literal. It shows the difference in cognitive ability between the brothers pretty well. The brother who seems to be doing better in daily life has a pretty good idea of what kind of answer a random person would expect.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- andoryuu 3y ago
  > When asked to name his favorite episode > It's definitely autistic to name drop the title to an audience of adults who likely don't remember If someone asks me to name an episode I'll assume they know the show, and that the name is sufficient. Because they asked for only that. Why can questions have an implicit "and tell me about it", but the answers cannot have an implicit "I assume you know which one it is"?
  - dmurray 3y ago
    You might be more likely to pick up on some context clues that this is an NPR reporter trying to make conversation about the topic she's just been told you're interested in, rather than a fellow obsessive fan of early-2000s children's TV.
    - andoryuu 3y ago
      I would probably explicitly ask if they want to know what the episode is about. But only after seeing their confused reaction to the silence after the first answer. And that's a maybe. If you want to know something, ask it. Not everyone wants (or is able) to bother with deciphering what you think internally. The person in the article has many issues. But I don't consider giving straight answer to a straight question being one of them. People expecting others to conform to their way of communication without making an effort to meet others halfway are the main issue.
giantg2 3y ago
If you just care, you'd probably say the "the episode called..." and maybe describe it for the person if you interpret their reaction as not understanding or recognizing it. Edit: why disagree? Not recognizing that someone wants more information, or that your communication doesn't carry enough context for a person to know what you're talking about is classic autism. If you're someone without autism and just care about the subject, you're more likely to recognize the social cues and add more context.
- yterdy 3y ago
  Because the explicit query was, "What's your favorite episode?". It's frustrating to be accused of disordered thinking on your part when the actual issue is disordered expectations from the other party. What they actually should have asked was, "What happened during your favorite episode?", which might have produced the response given by the sibling. It's not like neurotypical people don't also experience this frustration with having to divine what people actually desire in any given quantum of communication. I would even offer that people speaking with those on the spectrum might be primed to be less generous and forgiving with that anticipatory instinct; they jump to, "This person is weird," instead of considering the ways in which their own communication style is wanting. The reason they can get away with it, and autistic people can't, is simply a matter of how many people like them are around to validate their subjective experience. See your given CS department/TTRPG club for the flipside of this dynamic. EDIT: Might also explain the phenomenon of smug, "What you ACTUALLY wanted was-" responsed on SO. We've trained people with precise thought to assume that anyone coming to them with questions doesn't actually know what they're trying to accomplish. We've created monsters.
  - notahacker 3y ago
    The query explicitly didn't include "Despite asking you about your preferences, I have no interest in why you prefer it so please refrain from commenting on that. Please don't waffle or ask me anything back, simply provide me with the title, and I will have all the information I need", so I don't think it's "disordered expectations" to assume that message wasn't conveyed by the question... Neurotypical communication 101 is that a casual conversation question about your favourite things is probably a cue for you to be enthusiastic and effusive about things you care about rather than a prompt for you provide names only, especially if the interlocutor is unlikely be evaluating your preferences using their own expert knowledge of the field. Sure, if nobody else steps in to provide further context any [neurotypical] interlocutor ought to be able to continue/rescue the conversation by asking followup questions about what happened in an episode and what is it about that episode that you like, but staccato answers offering a bare minimum of information is a communication preference (occasionally appropriate, more often not) rather than something inherently demanded by the question. (I'd agree that people probably judge responses slightly differently if they already know the person on the other side of the conversation is autistic, but in a situation like this it can work in their favour, since if I assume the person providing only names, titles and one word answers to my open and friendly questions is neurotypical, I'm going to assume they're subtly signalling that they dislike me...)
OJFord 3y ago
It's the expectation that that's a sufficient answer to the question I suppose. Yes it literally is, but... that is many people's autism in a nutshell really isn't it. Even if talking to another fan, a 'less autistic' dialogue might be like: B: Oh, me too, do you have a favourite episode? A: Abby Makes the Seasons Change, hands down, do you remember that one? B: Hmm, I'm not sure.. A: Oh, it's the one where [...]

tialaramex 3y ago

> it is characteristically autistic to have episode names memorised like that One of my colleagues recommended that our department invite somebody from outside to explain to us about "neurotypical" people so we can better accommodate their special needs at work. We don't seem to have many "neurotypical" people so hence the idea to get an outsider to do a talk. Maybe one of the things it would be good to understand is, are there actually lots of these "neurotypical" people or are they just bad at counting ?

scottlamb 3y ago

I think you're right in that when the reporter asked "What's your favorite episode?", the more autistic brother interpreted it literally as "What's the name of your favorite episode?" where other people typically re-interpret the question as "Could you describe your favorite episode in a few sentences?" But the autistic version seems perfectly valid, and shouldn't a reporter recognize a direct answer to his question and ask a follow-up if needed? I get the feeling instead he just stared blankly until someone else translated for him...why blame the autistic person for the reporter's poor communication?

spongebobstoes 3y ago
> why blame the autistic person for the reporter's poor communication? this specific sort of difficulty communicating is a daily reality for many autistic folks I believe that communication can often be fixed by either party, but is usually fixed by neither