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Yes, it is awesome until you have to sysadmin it, apply updates, patch it, fix security holes, etc. I am not saying all self-hosted solutions are like that. The

by _pdp_ 3y ago

Yes, it is awesome until you have to sysadmin it, apply updates, patch it, fix security holes, etc. I am not saying all self-hosted solutions are like that. There are exceptions. However, the majority of open-source self-hosted solutions require a lot of extra work. This is why open-source is now also a marketing channel. People realise that even when you open-source something and give the code for free, it does not mean people would want to run it. It is simply not true. I sometimes wonder if some open-source projects are deliberately designed to be challenging to set up and run because an easier distribution model would conflict with business interests. Now, I recognise that everyone is different and values different things in life, and there is no problem with that. Personally, I go for a hosted solution if it requires more than 1-2H of work per month from me or a member of my staff, which, in my case, happens to apply to all software.

sandreas 3y ago
I found a pretty neat solution using Proxmox using encrypted ZFS, host Docker within an LXC with mapped mounts and user permissions as well as Portainer / Watchtower. So far I'm pretty happy, zfs makes incremental backup easy (one command - zfs send ...). I also keep a restic backup of the docker data directories in case zfs has a flaw. Keeping it up to date is easy with watchtower. So far pretty happy.
- 8fingerlouie 3y ago
  If you are hit by a bus tomorrow, does your family know how to pull their data (and yours) from that setup, or do your family photos go with you to the grave ?
  - sandreas 3y ago
    Yes, they have full access, but it's a good point :-)
    - chadsix 2y ago
      We actually made a tool [1] that handles the upgrades and maintenance for self hosting your own server appliances on your own computer. [1] https://ipv6.rs/cloudseeder https://ipv6.rs/cloudseeder
lolinder 3y ago
> Yes, it is awesome until you have to sysadmin it, apply updates, patch it, fix security holes, etc. I am not saying all self-hosted solutions are like that. There are exceptions. However, the majority of open-source self-hosted solutions require a lot of extra work. I'm currently self-hosting 10 different applications on my local server, which represents everything I've ever seen that looked fun or useful to me. Every one of them had a Docker image with an example compose file, which means updating them just requires periodically running Renovate [0] on the repo that stores all my compose files and then running a script that docker compose pulls the updates. It takes maybe 10 minutes every other week, and is actually kinda fun. It helps that all the apps are only accessible from within my VPN, so I'm not too worried about fixing security updates within a tiny time window. [0] https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate
A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
I think you are right. Looking back, the hurdle of setting up manually 'the hard way' is similar to Costco's approach. There is a cost to the membership, but the people you get are the type of customers you want, because they are willing and able to pay the cost. Naturally, this kinda sucks, because some things are harder than they have to be, but then again, we are moving so far away from the nuts and bolts of it all that we barely understand how anything works. But I would personally argue that is most of the civilization anyway. On the other hand, if the user wants 'easy mode', it definitely exists for most purposes. At the end of the day, its all about use case.

by _pdp_ 3y ago

sandreas 3y ago

I found a pretty neat solution using Proxmox using encrypted ZFS, host Docker within an LXC with mapped mounts and user permissions as well as Portainer / Watchtower. So far I'm pretty happy, zfs makes incremental backup easy (one command - zfs send ...). I also keep a restic backup of the docker data directories in case zfs has a flaw. Keeping it up to date is easy with watchtower. So far pretty happy.

8fingerlouie 3y ago
If you are hit by a bus tomorrow, does your family know how to pull their data (and yours) from that setup, or do your family photos go with you to the grave ?
- sandreas 3y ago
  Yes, they have full access, but it's a good point :-)
  - chadsix 2y ago
    We actually made a tool [1] that handles the upgrades and maintenance for self hosting your own server appliances on your own computer. [1] https://ipv6.rs/cloudseeder https://ipv6.rs/cloudseeder

lolinder 3y ago

> Yes, it is awesome until you have to sysadmin it, apply updates, patch it, fix security holes, etc. I am not saying all self-hosted solutions are like that. There are exceptions. However, the majority of open-source self-hosted solutions require a lot of extra work. I'm currently self-hosting 10 different applications on my local server, which represents everything I've ever seen that looked fun or useful to me. Every one of them had a Docker image with an example compose file, which means updating them just requires periodically running Renovate [0] on the repo that stores all my compose files and then running a script that docker compose pulls the updates. It takes maybe 10 minutes every other week, and is actually kinda fun. It helps that all the apps are only accessible from within my VPN, so I'm not too worried about fixing security updates within a tiny time window. [0] https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago

I think you are right. Looking back, the hurdle of setting up manually 'the hard way' is similar to Costco's approach. There is a cost to the membership, but the people you get are the type of customers you want, because they are willing and able to pay the cost. Naturally, this kinda sucks, because some things are harder than they have to be, but then again, we are moving so far away from the nuts and bolts of it all that we barely understand how anything works. But I would personally argue that is most of the civilization anyway. On the other hand, if the user wants 'easy mode', it definitely exists for most purposes. At the end of the day, its all about use case.