5 ms·

Japan has avoided much of the housing issues we have in much in the western world, and in the English-speaking world in particular. Some factors in this is that

Japan has avoided much of the housing issues we have in much in the western world, and in the English-speaking world in particular. Some factors in this is that construction is much more by-right, has sensible zoning, excludes a gnarly community process and is planned centrally instead locally which in combination avoids all issues with NIMBYs and results in a good housing supply. A great article on zoning to get started on this: https://devonzuegel.com/north-american-vs-japanese-zoning https://devonzuegel.com/north-american-vs-japanese-zoning

qwerty456127 3y ago
Well, this is curious. I will study this. At least one useful comment, thank you. Nevertheless, if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? Can an average McDonalds worker in their 20-ies just go and buy a home easily without applying for a lifetime-long mortgage?
- Barrin92 3y ago
  > if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? You literally have it the wrong way around. There's less incentive to own homes in countries where housing prices fall. Owning a home actually costs you money, it isn't a good investment in the absence of artificial scarcity. In Japan a house is a consumer good like a car, in fact on average the value of most houses drops to about zero in 30-40 years. Some of the richest countries in the world have the lowest rates of personal home ownership, Switzerland, Germany, Japan among them because it isn't an investment vehicle and rent protections are good. This narrative of being desperate to own a home just doesn't make any sense.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    I consider the value of owning a house is being free from having to pay rent rather than to gain on the investment. The fact a house is considered an investment (in full meaning of the term so once you own it you worry when its price falls) means it's not really affordable.
- Steko 3y ago
  > if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? Mostly because they don't need or want their own house and/or they spend their money on other stuff. > Can an average McDonalds worker in their 20-ies just go and buy a home easily The median McDonalds worker in Japan is 17 and lives with their parents. And maybe 3/4 of the ones who aren't teens are freeters. If you don't make a lot of money you can certainly buy something but it won't be the nicest or in the best location. > without applying for a lifetime-long mortgage? Many people buy with cash, many get nicer homes with 35-year mortgages at super low interest rates.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    Now I feel happy there is such a place where that is this way and people live without worrying about where to live. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.
leereeves 3y ago
If housing isn't a problem in Japan, why do they still have pod/capsule hotels and apartments?
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  Because those things are not a problem for everyone and a reasonable tradeoff. If you want a large SFH like in the American suburbs move to the Inaka. I'd argue that your question is part of what's at the root of the housing crisis in the anglo world
- solidsnack9000 3y ago
  I think you are reading the situation backwards. Capsule hotels and tiny apartments are not a reflection of low housing supply, they are a reflection of not having much space -- and there is not much space because so many people want to be in a certain area, basically the very dense urban centers. There is really nothing the market can do, to make more big houses and big hotel rooms available in downtown Tokyo, but the market in Japan is actually getting a huge number of people fairly cheap stays in very dense areas and doing so much more successfully than in the USA. I don't think there are any capsule apartments, with multiple people living together in tubes in the wall, but there are very small apartments.
somenameforme 3y ago
Japan is a very different country than most think it is. Most seem to remember the Japan of the past when they were a technological and economic giant, set to imminently become the largest global economy. Japan today has been through 30 years of recession/stagflation. Their economy was larger 30 years ago than it is today. [1] On top of a dysfunctional economy, they also are going through severe demographic collapse. The population of Japan has decreased by more than 5 million people since 2010 [2], and that decline is accelerating. Even the population of places like Tokyo are decreasing. As a result of these factors, Japan now has an economy closer to a developing nation than the economic superpower many of us remember. Their GDP/capita is $33,000, and average monthly wages (for workers only) is now $1900 [3], for an average annual salary of $22,800. And all of of this combines to create a direct path to really affordable housing, at least so long as you aren't living off of Japanese wages. [1] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=JP https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [2] - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-populat... [3] - https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/6ef60043f2cf-japan-real-wages-fall-in-february-for-23rd-month-down-13-on-year.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/6ef60043f2cf-japa...
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  Why is there a demographic collapse if housing is easily affordable? Most of my friends here in the EU allocate the biggest chunk of their salary to paying rent for single-bedroom apartments, I don't dare to imagine what a horror would it be to live in one as a family with children, having no individual room for yourself and no individual rooms for them. I am fortunate to have an extra room but having kids still means giving up my home office room turning it into children bedroom. Isn't this a major factor in making decisions about whether or not to reproduce?
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    Sexism. Japanese women have to pick between their career and having a family, so they pick the former. There's a lot of old men running Japan that won't hire married women or expect women who get married to leave the workforce. Korea, which has even worse demographic problems than Japan, also has significantly worse sexism in ways I'd have to link you to a three-part Moon Channel YouTube video essay to even scratch the surface of. Immigration is also a factor: getting permanent residency in Japan is a pain in the ass. America doesn't even notice its declining birth rate because everyone wants to move here and we let them in.

qwerty456127 3y ago

Well, this is curious. I will study this. At least one useful comment, thank you. Nevertheless, if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? Can an average McDonalds worker in their 20-ies just go and buy a home easily without applying for a lifetime-long mortgage?

Barrin92 3y ago
> if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? You literally have it the wrong way around. There's less incentive to own homes in countries where housing prices fall. Owning a home actually costs you money, it isn't a good investment in the absence of artificial scarcity. In Japan a house is a consumer good like a car, in fact on average the value of most houses drops to about zero in 30-40 years. Some of the richest countries in the world have the lowest rates of personal home ownership, Switzerland, Germany, Japan among them because it isn't an investment vehicle and rent protections are good. This narrative of being desperate to own a home just doesn't make any sense.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I consider the value of owning a house is being free from having to pay rent rather than to gain on the investment. The fact a house is considered an investment (in full meaning of the term so once you own it you worry when its price falls) means it's not really affordable.
Steko 3y ago
> if housing is so affordable in Japan, why are there still people who don't own homes? Mostly because they don't need or want their own house and/or they spend their money on other stuff. > Can an average McDonalds worker in their 20-ies just go and buy a home easily The median McDonalds worker in Japan is 17 and lives with their parents. And maybe 3/4 of the ones who aren't teens are freeters. If you don't make a lot of money you can certainly buy something but it won't be the nicest or in the best location. > without applying for a lifetime-long mortgage? Many people buy with cash, many get nicer homes with 35-year mortgages at super low interest rates.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  Now I feel happy there is such a place where that is this way and people live without worrying about where to live. Thank you for sharing this knowledge.

leereeves 3y ago

If housing isn't a problem in Japan, why do they still have pod/capsule hotels and apartments?

ajmurmann 3y ago
Because those things are not a problem for everyone and a reasonable tradeoff. If you want a large SFH like in the American suburbs move to the Inaka. I'd argue that your question is part of what's at the root of the housing crisis in the anglo world
solidsnack9000 3y ago
I think you are reading the situation backwards. Capsule hotels and tiny apartments are not a reflection of low housing supply, they are a reflection of not having much space -- and there is not much space because so many people want to be in a certain area, basically the very dense urban centers. There is really nothing the market can do, to make more big houses and big hotel rooms available in downtown Tokyo, but the market in Japan is actually getting a huge number of people fairly cheap stays in very dense areas and doing so much more successfully than in the USA. I don't think there are any capsule apartments, with multiple people living together in tubes in the wall, but there are very small apartments.

somenameforme 3y ago

Japan is a very different country than most think it is. Most seem to remember the Japan of the past when they were a technological and economic giant, set to imminently become the largest global economy. Japan today has been through 30 years of recession/stagflation. Their economy was larger 30 years ago than it is today. [1] On top of a dysfunctional economy, they also are going through severe demographic collapse. The population of Japan has decreased by more than 5 million people since 2010 [2], and that decline is accelerating. Even the population of places like Tokyo are decreasing. As a result of these factors, Japan now has an economy closer to a developing nation than the economic superpower many of us remember. Their GDP/capita is $33,000, and average monthly wages (for workers only) is now $1900 [3], for an average annual salary of $22,800. And all of of this combines to create a direct path to really affordable housing, at least so long as you aren't living off of Japanese wages. [1] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=JP https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [2] - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-populat... [3] - https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/6ef60043f2cf-japan-real-wages-fall-in-february-for-23rd-month-down-13-on-year.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/6ef60043f2cf-japa...

qwerty456127 3y ago
Why is there a demographic collapse if housing is easily affordable? Most of my friends here in the EU allocate the biggest chunk of their salary to paying rent for single-bedroom apartments, I don't dare to imagine what a horror would it be to live in one as a family with children, having no individual room for yourself and no individual rooms for them. I am fortunate to have an extra room but having kids still means giving up my home office room turning it into children bedroom. Isn't this a major factor in making decisions about whether or not to reproduce?
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Sexism. Japanese women have to pick between their career and having a family, so they pick the former. There's a lot of old men running Japan that won't hire married women or expect women who get married to leave the workforce. Korea, which has even worse demographic problems than Japan, also has significantly worse sexism in ways I'd have to link you to a three-part Moon Channel YouTube video essay to even scratch the surface of. Immigration is also a factor: getting permanent residency in Japan is a pain in the ass. America doesn't even notice its declining birth rate because everyone wants to move here and we let them in.