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> Rather than begin applying for warrants, the government has circumvented the ruling in many cases, buying up GPS data from companies that consumers largely be

> Rather than begin applying for warrants, the government has circumvented the ruling in many cases, buying up GPS data from companies that consumers largely believe are tracking them purely for advertising purposes. > “They’re buying data. That’s what they’re doing,” says Warren Davidson, a Republican congressperson from Ohio. “They’re structuring markets to collect the data and they’re circumventing the Fourth Amendment. We need to turn that off.” This is also a big part of the problem, imo. It is too easy for apps to request a cocktail of permissions (including location data) when an app is installed; then users never revisit those permissions after the app is used once. Meanwhile the app is constantly tracking users locations. And selling it to third parties, which sell it to gov’t orgs. How can mobile devices be updated to make users more aware of these problems? Maybe iOS and Android can, once a month, pull up a dossier of you on an app-by-app basis or something.

sandworm101 2y ago
GrapheneOS is a good start. It isn't a complete answer, but it does put the user in a little more control.
- pmontra 2y ago
  It runs only on Pixels https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    That is certainly a big issue, but the concept of people being able to control which OS manages their phone is something we all need.
  - whatshisface 2y ago
    Phone bootloaders are rapidly becoming unavailable in the unlocked state due to Chinese laws that say bootloaders must be locked for their region. Pixels are the majority of the US general purpose computing market in the mobile form factor simply because they haven't unified their global product variants yet.
- toolz 2y ago
  geez, I really wanted to love this project, but it's just one piece of drama after another with someone inside of that project.
  - unethical_ban 2y ago
    Without knowing what you're talking about, caring too much as an end user about the back of house on software development is wild to me.
    - salawat 2y ago
      It shouldn't be. People need to bloody care about the nitty gritty. I'm tired of consumers and investors who know jack and shit about what it is people are leveraging their capital to do. Think about how different the world could be if we shut off the spigot to companies that acted like asshats.
      - unethical_ban 2y ago
        Sure, but I think "There is an asshat in an open-source project filling a needed spot in the mobile OS ecosystem is different than "Apple is funneling Chinese citizen communications to the CCCP" or "Google is helping the military develop facial-recognition killer drones".
    - toolz 2y ago
      Naturally I don't think I care too much or I would care less. I believe I care an appropriate amount. Unstable leadership doesn't seem likely to provide stable software. I'm not going to invest time and energy learning something that could fall apart tomorrow. I don't think everyone should take my approach but there are circumstances I deem extreme enough that it's worth mentioning so that other people can investigate and make informed decisions. I specifically didn't go into detail so that people who don't care don't have to think as much about it.
orisho 2y ago
In newer versions of Android, apps which are not opened by the user have their permissions automatically and periodically revoked. So they no longer have the permissions, and when reopened, the user needs to grant the permissions again interactively. Presumably to solve this.
- always2slow 2y ago
  Doesn't really matter when google itself makes its data and infrastructure available for "target acquisition" AI. See Project Maven and Nimbus.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    Of course it matters. A bad thing being bad doesn't imply a good thing isn't good.
    - always2slow 2y ago
      Not in the context of the government buying the data, they'll just buy it from google instead of shadowgovt.databroker.com. It's a red herring, a feel good feature that just limit's googles competition and doesn't really change the information collected on us.
      - shadowgovt 2y ago
        Google doesn't sell it, is the thing. Unless you're somehow claiming that your browsing history was used to train an AI for identifying tanks or terror connections, in which case for the former that makes no sense and for the latter the data is so emulsified that it can't really be considered your data any more than you could lay claim to a cat recognizer that was trained on a billion cat photos, some of which happen to be from your blog. (And that's even assuming one accepts the premise that Google's cache of browsing data was used to train the AI that the Israeli government is using. In reality, that information is deeply firewalled and doesn't see the light of day for other applications).
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Get ready for worse. Microsoft is not only forcing OEMs to put a proprietary Copilot key on their keyboards, but they’re about to make Copilot and its agent launch on startup by default. I’m sure all the data they suck up will find its way to invasive ads, data brokers, and the government. https://www.pcworld.com/article/2301770/eww-copilot-might-auto-launch-with-windows-soon.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2301770/eww-copilot-might-au...
- ghthor 2y ago
  Hey, keylogger, how do I make pancakes?
- webspinner 2y ago
  Why does Microsoft hate it's users? Most of us pay for PCs with windows on them, and have upgraded to Windows 11 systems in the last couple years. Well I know I did last year, anyway. Well those who don't obviously choose to use something else. Anyway Microsoft seems to just be making things less and less open, and less and less private as we go along. For some reason, they seem to want to just get rid of their entire userbase. However for a person with accessibility needs, it's hard to just up and switch to Linux.
colordrops 2y ago
I'm on LineageOS, and not sure if it's a baseline android feature or not, but it does occasionally bring up a notification about which apps are using location access.
threecheese 2y ago
My understanding (as an iPhone user) is that iOS has 1) a Location permission that a user has to grant to an app, and 2) a Background Refresh permission that’s required for apps to run when they aren’t in the foreground (+/- some grace period I think), and if these are enabled it should prevent apps from gathering this data - whether for advertising or just general fuckery. Is this inaccurate? I would be very interested to know. Obv this won’t prevent Apple from tracking you, which is important if they are part of your threat model.
- hulitu 2y ago
  This is true for Apps. System can at will use any permission, at least that's what it says in the TOS.
webspinner 2y ago
Oh yeah, they don't want to get a warrant. I even saw something that said if congress doesn't reauthorize it, it will just keep going, because it can be recertified by the FISC. LOL couldn't remember what it was, but found it. https://www.wired.com/story/section-702-vote-fails-trump-fisa/ https://www.wired.com/story/section-702-vote-fails-trump-fis...

sandworm101 2y ago

GrapheneOS is a good start. It isn't a complete answer, but it does put the user in a little more control.

pmontra 2y ago
It runs only on Pixels https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
- sandworm101 2y ago
  That is certainly a big issue, but the concept of people being able to control which OS manages their phone is something we all need.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  Phone bootloaders are rapidly becoming unavailable in the unlocked state due to Chinese laws that say bootloaders must be locked for their region. Pixels are the majority of the US general purpose computing market in the mobile form factor simply because they haven't unified their global product variants yet.
toolz 2y ago
geez, I really wanted to love this project, but it's just one piece of drama after another with someone inside of that project.
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  Without knowing what you're talking about, caring too much as an end user about the back of house on software development is wild to me.
  - salawat 2y ago
    It shouldn't be. People need to bloody care about the nitty gritty. I'm tired of consumers and investors who know jack and shit about what it is people are leveraging their capital to do. Think about how different the world could be if we shut off the spigot to companies that acted like asshats.
    - unethical_ban 2y ago
      Sure, but I think "There is an asshat in an open-source project filling a needed spot in the mobile OS ecosystem is different than "Apple is funneling Chinese citizen communications to the CCCP" or "Google is helping the military develop facial-recognition killer drones".
  - toolz 2y ago
    Naturally I don't think I care too much or I would care less. I believe I care an appropriate amount. Unstable leadership doesn't seem likely to provide stable software. I'm not going to invest time and energy learning something that could fall apart tomorrow. I don't think everyone should take my approach but there are circumstances I deem extreme enough that it's worth mentioning so that other people can investigate and make informed decisions. I specifically didn't go into detail so that people who don't care don't have to think as much about it.

orisho 2y ago

In newer versions of Android, apps which are not opened by the user have their permissions automatically and periodically revoked. So they no longer have the permissions, and when reopened, the user needs to grant the permissions again interactively. Presumably to solve this.

always2slow 2y ago
Doesn't really matter when google itself makes its data and infrastructure available for "target acquisition" AI. See Project Maven and Nimbus.
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  Of course it matters. A bad thing being bad doesn't imply a good thing isn't good.
  - always2slow 2y ago
    Not in the context of the government buying the data, they'll just buy it from google instead of shadowgovt.databroker.com. It's a red herring, a feel good feature that just limit's googles competition and doesn't really change the information collected on us.
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      Google doesn't sell it, is the thing. Unless you're somehow claiming that your browsing history was used to train an AI for identifying tanks or terror connections, in which case for the former that makes no sense and for the latter the data is so emulsified that it can't really be considered your data any more than you could lay claim to a cat recognizer that was trained on a billion cat photos, some of which happen to be from your blog. (And that's even assuming one accepts the premise that Google's cache of browsing data was used to train the AI that the Israeli government is using. In reality, that information is deeply firewalled and doesn't see the light of day for other applications).

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Get ready for worse. Microsoft is not only forcing OEMs to put a proprietary Copilot key on their keyboards, but they’re about to make Copilot and its agent launch on startup by default. I’m sure all the data they suck up will find its way to invasive ads, data brokers, and the government. https://www.pcworld.com/article/2301770/eww-copilot-might-auto-launch-with-windows-soon.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2301770/eww-copilot-might-au...

ghthor 2y ago
Hey, keylogger, how do I make pancakes?
webspinner 2y ago
Why does Microsoft hate it's users? Most of us pay for PCs with windows on them, and have upgraded to Windows 11 systems in the last couple years. Well I know I did last year, anyway. Well those who don't obviously choose to use something else. Anyway Microsoft seems to just be making things less and less open, and less and less private as we go along. For some reason, they seem to want to just get rid of their entire userbase. However for a person with accessibility needs, it's hard to just up and switch to Linux.

colordrops 2y ago

I'm on LineageOS, and not sure if it's a baseline android feature or not, but it does occasionally bring up a notification about which apps are using location access.

threecheese 2y ago

My understanding (as an iPhone user) is that iOS has 1) a Location permission that a user has to grant to an app, and 2) a Background Refresh permission that’s required for apps to run when they aren’t in the foreground (+/- some grace period I think), and if these are enabled it should prevent apps from gathering this data - whether for advertising or just general fuckery. Is this inaccurate? I would be very interested to know. Obv this won’t prevent Apple from tracking you, which is important if they are part of your threat model.

hulitu 2y ago
This is true for Apps. System can at will use any permission, at least that's what it says in the TOS.

webspinner 2y ago

Oh yeah, they don't want to get a warrant. I even saw something that said if congress doesn't reauthorize it, it will just keep going, because it can be recertified by the FISC. LOL couldn't remember what it was, but found it. https://www.wired.com/story/section-702-vote-fails-trump-fisa/ https://www.wired.com/story/section-702-vote-fails-trump-fis...