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This does not surprise me - the attention to detail that professional musicians play with is astounding. A friend had a lesson with Mitsuko Uchida and she woul

This does not surprise me - the attention to detail that professional musicians play with is astounding. A friend had a lesson with Mitsuko Uchida and she would correct his tempo from hearing the first note. I wouldn't believe it if it weren't for the fact that my piano teacher was also such a stickler for the details and he slowly opened my awareness to just how much control of the instrument is possible. So it doesn't strike me as surprising that Beethoven was fussy and pedantic enough to have a personal graduation of dynamics that far exceeded the standard notation. This is a man who taught himself how to listen through his teeth after all... Being able to hear the music as Beethoven intended is a small dream to many musicians

jancsika 3y ago
> A friend had a lesson with Mitsuko Uchida and she would correct his tempo from hearing the first note. I think you meant second note. :)
- colanderman 3y ago
  First note is perfectly possible. Note held too long? Tempo too slow. Note released too early? Tempo too fast, or note erroneously played staccato.
  - recursive 3y ago
    A 10% change in tempo at 120 BPM results in a difference of 50ms in the duration of a quarter note. This is certainly not difficult to a professional to discern. What would be hard though is interrupting the performer during this window and stopping them prior to playing the second note. Errata: Some first notes are longer than a quarter notes. Some tempos are different than 120 BPM. It's possible to notice something before you can effectively communicate it.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      I think they covered this pretty effectively in Whiplash "not quite my tempo" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvBu5ErSSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvBu5ErSSo
      - recursive 3y ago
        That's a fictional movie. There are a lot of things that are accurate, but it's not really evidence of any real person's ability. Also, Fletcher still takes several notes to hear the incorrect tempo.
        dylan604 3y ago
        Sometimes, but he deliberately takes his time before hurling his displeasure. And it being fictional doesn't really matter. It's a demonstration of the subject at hand. Nobody claimed it was real using actors to portray a recreation.
    - djtango 3y ago
      To add to this, before playing musicians usually set themselves up which will also include counting themselves in. I'm sure if you're very experienced with playing with orchestra or chamber (as Uchida and my friend are) then there is a non verbal language they dial into, call it telepathy if you will, that lets them sense that count in. Sounds fictional but dancers and fighters will also attest to being able to read the thoughts of their partners... So the first note may also include 1-2 bars of silent counting
- edbaskerville 3y ago
  First note makes a better story. :) And not totally implausible--she could have inferred the tempo from the preparatory gesture leading into the first note.
  - ssttoo 3y ago
    Reminds me of my latest classical guitar lesson… Teacher: Have you ever learnt Villa-Lobos étude #1? (Reaches for his guitar) Me: this thing? (I play one note, very possibly a semitone off as it’s a reach past 12th fret on the D string) Teacher: (with his back to me) No, that’s #4 Me: (wtf!)
    - bombcar 3y ago
      I used to listen to the same roughly five thousand songs, and friends were amazed that I could recognize some of the MP3s by the duration of silence before it began.
      - djtango 3y ago
        Yeah or the acoustics of the recording. I used to be able to guestimate who was the pianist for a given recording and I'm pretty sure acoustics factored in as much as the actual pianism
- djtango 3y ago
  No that was exactly the whole point. The first note. My friend was also a professional and was also baffled by this. Uchida is famously fastidious. She has 5 pianos at home, no one is allowed to touch them and she allegedly knows whether someone does. If you listen to her you can hear just how fussy she is. I went to listen to her play the Schubert Impromptu cycle at Southbank and she walked off the stage mid-piece because there was some alarm sounding outside haha.

jancsika 3y ago

> A friend had a lesson with Mitsuko Uchida and she would correct his tempo from hearing the first note. I think you meant second note. :)

colanderman 3y ago
First note is perfectly possible. Note held too long? Tempo too slow. Note released too early? Tempo too fast, or note erroneously played staccato.
- recursive 3y ago
  A 10% change in tempo at 120 BPM results in a difference of 50ms in the duration of a quarter note. This is certainly not difficult to a professional to discern. What would be hard though is interrupting the performer during this window and stopping them prior to playing the second note. Errata: Some first notes are longer than a quarter notes. Some tempos are different than 120 BPM. It's possible to notice something before you can effectively communicate it.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I think they covered this pretty effectively in Whiplash "not quite my tempo" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvBu5ErSSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvBu5ErSSo
    - recursive 3y ago
      That's a fictional movie. There are a lot of things that are accurate, but it's not really evidence of any real person's ability. Also, Fletcher still takes several notes to hear the incorrect tempo.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        Sometimes, but he deliberately takes his time before hurling his displeasure. And it being fictional doesn't really matter. It's a demonstration of the subject at hand. Nobody claimed it was real using actors to portray a recreation.
  - djtango 3y ago
    To add to this, before playing musicians usually set themselves up which will also include counting themselves in. I'm sure if you're very experienced with playing with orchestra or chamber (as Uchida and my friend are) then there is a non verbal language they dial into, call it telepathy if you will, that lets them sense that count in. Sounds fictional but dancers and fighters will also attest to being able to read the thoughts of their partners... So the first note may also include 1-2 bars of silent counting
edbaskerville 3y ago
First note makes a better story. :) And not totally implausible--she could have inferred the tempo from the preparatory gesture leading into the first note.
- ssttoo 3y ago
  Reminds me of my latest classical guitar lesson… Teacher: Have you ever learnt Villa-Lobos étude #1? (Reaches for his guitar) Me: this thing? (I play one note, very possibly a semitone off as it’s a reach past 12th fret on the D string) Teacher: (with his back to me) No, that’s #4 Me: (wtf!)
  - bombcar 3y ago
    I used to listen to the same roughly five thousand songs, and friends were amazed that I could recognize some of the MP3s by the duration of silence before it began.
    - djtango 3y ago
      Yeah or the acoustics of the recording. I used to be able to guestimate who was the pianist for a given recording and I'm pretty sure acoustics factored in as much as the actual pianism
djtango 3y ago
No that was exactly the whole point. The first note. My friend was also a professional and was also baffled by this. Uchida is famously fastidious. She has 5 pianos at home, no one is allowed to touch them and she allegedly knows whether someone does. If you listen to her you can hear just how fussy she is. I went to listen to her play the Schubert Impromptu cycle at Southbank and she walked off the stage mid-piece because there was some alarm sounding outside haha.