5 ms·

I hope Firefox gains more momentum. I don't trust Google, I don't want them to control everything. FF 13 is fast and modern browser. Installing Ghostery, AdBloc

by pimeys 14y ago

I hope Firefox gains more momentum. I don't trust Google, I don't want them to control everything. FF 13 is fast and modern browser. Installing Ghostery, AdBlock and Firebug makes it perfect.

gouranga 14y ago
Agreed. Internet Explorer with TPL support is a better proposition than Chrome. Firefox as well. Both browsers are putting the user first and not the vendor. Chrome is simply not trustworthy. Why would you get a browser from an advertising company that uses people's data to make money?
- hahainternet 14y ago
  So get Chromium. Problem solved.
  - gouranga 14y ago
    Chromium is not what people are using. Chrome is. Completely different build output.
    - hahainternet 14y ago
      That's their choice. If you want to use chrome but without Google, get Chromium.
- te_chris 14y ago
  o rly? Microsoft have suddenly stopped trying to take a slice of the internet advertising market and competing directly with Google?
  - olalonde 14y ago
    And doesn't most of Firefox's revenues come from Google?
    - throwaway_87 14y ago
      Yes.
- esolyt 14y ago
  Nice try Microsoft. Google Chrome is completely open source and can be easily compiled from the source (expect for its integrated Flash player and PDF reader). If you don't like something about it, please change it.
  - gouranga 14y ago
    Google Chrome is not completely open source. Chromium is. People are using Chrome, not Chromium.
    - ralfn 14y ago
      People arent using trademarks, they are using software. And the same is slso true for FF. The open source one is called iceweasel, because the logo and name of Firefox are protected. A compiled chromium source is identical to Google Chrone, except for the icon and name. Just like with Firefox.
      - sciurus 14y ago
        That's not accurate. It's true that * The Firefox logo is not released under a free license * The Firefox name and logo are trademarked, and Mozilla has strict policies you must adhere to if you want to use them However, you can build Firefox without using the name or logo. Requiring derived works to have different branding does not mean a program is not open source or free software. The story of how iceweasel and friends came to exist can be found at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622
    - esolyt 14y ago
      I already said "except Flash and PDF reader". People are using an open source browser + Flash Player + PDF Reader. If you don't trust Google's Flash player and PDF reader, feel free to take them out. In fact, you don't have to, because using Chromium would be equivalent to doing this.
  - bzbarsky 14y ago
    There are various other exceptions too. For example, I believe that Chrome will play H.264 and MP3 and AAC, while Chromium will not.
esolyt 14y ago
To be fair, Google Chrome is completely open source too, expect for the integrated PDF Reader and Flash. You can compile Chromium from the source and add these two manually, if you need them.
- joelthelion 14y ago
  It is, but using it means that Google gets your vote when discussing the future of the web. I'd rather have Mozilla shaping the web than Google.
  - pixelbath 14y ago
    Since Chromium is actually using the WebKit engine, wouldn't it be Apple, and not Google?
    - jballanc 14y ago
      It's a bit of both with a healthy sprinkling of Nokia, Samsung, and quite a few others. In reality, WebKit has been driving the standards process for quite some time now (especially considering its unrivaled dominance on mobile).
    - riledhel 14y ago
      Apple is just one of several companies and developers of the WebKit engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit
    - joelthelion 14y ago
      It's Google that decides what features and protocols are implemented into Chrome. Since they control a large share of the market, it basically gives them life or death power on new features of web languages.
- toemetoch 14y ago
  FYI: difference between Chrome and Chromium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Differences_from_Google_Chrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Differen...
lumberjack 14y ago
And Vimperator/Pentadactly! Seriously, it grew so much into me that I can't browse the web without those add-ons any more!
moystard 14y ago
Same here. I had switched to Chrome a few months ago but have switched back since then. The last versions of Firefox are a great step toward the perfect browser: excellent performances and startup time, great addons, and a smaller memory footprint than Chrome.
antninja 14y ago
Firefox used to be my browser of choice, but now it's the worst of all for me. There are two main problems: 1. Sometimes I start FF and it tells me that its process is still running. It happens too often that I close FF and it fails to properly terminate its process. The result is that I can't open FF until I kill it in the task manager. 2. Firefox is the only browser in which Flash crashes. Almost every day I had to search for the "Plugin container for Firefox" in the task manager and manually kill it. Today the browsers that "just work" are IE9 and Chrome. I can't use Chrome all the time because it doesn't open images in Twitter, probably because images use http and Twitter uses https. Every browser has its own little problems. Those of Firefox are too much for me.
- robin_reala 14y ago
  Sounds like a corrupt profile. If you’re interested in trying to fix it then you could delete your profile and start again (or if you’re running a beta or newer Firefox go to about:support and click on ‘Reset Firefox’).
  - shibboleth 14y ago
    I don't know about that. I get the same issues even with Aurora (as do many of my colleagues).
- aluhut 14y ago
  I know your problem from 1. but after some time on Chrome (Chromium) I realised that it's faster to kill one FF process instead of killing x chrome processes looking for the right one that is broken and still running after I "closed" the browser. I don't know what it was that crashed my chrome that often. It must have been java or flash because it broke down on pages that are loaded with these. In the end I came back to ff. All my good addons are there, they all work and if it breaks down it's way faster to kill then chrome. Initially I tried chrome because I thought it may eat up less memory but the difference was not really big on all the chrome processes compared to the ff one.
- drhowarddrfine 14y ago
  It sounds like you are having issues with your computer. Perhaps you need to take it the the Geek Squad and have them look it over. You can always find someone who has issues with everything. Most people don't have any problems at all.
bmj 14y ago
Thoughts on SRWare's Iron Chromium implementation? http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php
- justinschuh 14y ago
  Full disclosure: I work on Chrome. Accepting that, I think it's pretty clear that Iron is scamware. It's just an outdated Chromium build with some hardcoded preferences and support for a text file of blocked URLs (something far better implemented by extensions). The creator makes money from ads on the homepage, default search provider, and install page. You can read a bit more background here: http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.html http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.ht... Coincidentally, I recently poked at Iron to determine if it includes the security and stability fixes we merge for stable releases. So, I tried to get the source code to make the analysis easier. It turns out there's no repository, and I had to wait eight hours pulling 1GB of archives from Rapidshare. When I finally opened it I found a tarball from Chrome 6, which is almost two years old (even though Iron is obviously using Chrome 18). So, I don't think the creator is very concerned about keeping up pretenses (like being an open source project) anymore.
- polshaw 14y ago
  My understanding was it was a 'fake' in that it offered 0 more than vanilla chromium in terms of separation from google/privacy (although chromium is a pain to update- and even somewhat difficult to find downloads for).
sneak 14y ago
How is managing the development of something that is totally open source "controlling everything"? That's like claiming that you don't want to use Linux because you don't trust Linus. The code is there. If they do something you don't like, you can always fork.
- pimeys 14y ago
  Mozilla foundation > Google.
  - esolyt 14y ago
    Powerful counter argument.
- Sargis 14y ago
  Chrome's not open source, Chromium is.
- joelthelion 14y ago
  Read my answers to this comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4001959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4001959 Openness of the code is only part of the problem.
- pimeys 14y ago
  Maybe a better counter argument is, that I don't really have a big trust for corporations. I can trust Linus because he's a hacker just like I am. I can trust Mozilla because their goal is to build web as hackers. Then we have a big advertisement company who are building some nice things, but they still have the desire to sell commercials. To gather data about us and do some data mining. That's the reason I prefer Mozilla over Google as an organization. I apologize my bad argument before.

by pimeys 14y ago

I hope Firefox gains more momentum. I don't trust Google, I don't want them to control everything. FF 13 is fast and modern browser. Installing Ghostery, AdBlock and Firebug makes it perfect.

gouranga 14y ago

Agreed. Internet Explorer with TPL support is a better proposition than Chrome. Firefox as well. Both browsers are putting the user first and not the vendor. Chrome is simply not trustworthy. Why would you get a browser from an advertising company that uses people's data to make money?

hahainternet 14y ago
So get Chromium. Problem solved.
- gouranga 14y ago
  Chromium is not what people are using. Chrome is. Completely different build output.
  - hahainternet 14y ago
    That's their choice. If you want to use chrome but without Google, get Chromium.
te_chris 14y ago
o rly? Microsoft have suddenly stopped trying to take a slice of the internet advertising market and competing directly with Google?
- olalonde 14y ago
  And doesn't most of Firefox's revenues come from Google?
  - throwaway_87 14y ago
    Yes.
esolyt 14y ago
Nice try Microsoft. Google Chrome is completely open source and can be easily compiled from the source (expect for its integrated Flash player and PDF reader). If you don't like something about it, please change it.
- gouranga 14y ago
  Google Chrome is not completely open source. Chromium is. People are using Chrome, not Chromium.
  - ralfn 14y ago
    People arent using trademarks, they are using software. And the same is slso true for FF. The open source one is called iceweasel, because the logo and name of Firefox are protected. A compiled chromium source is identical to Google Chrone, except for the icon and name. Just like with Firefox.
    - sciurus 14y ago
      That's not accurate. It's true that * The Firefox logo is not released under a free license * The Firefox name and logo are trademarked, and Mozilla has strict policies you must adhere to if you want to use them However, you can build Firefox without using the name or logo. Requiring derived works to have different branding does not mean a program is not open source or free software. The story of how iceweasel and friends came to exist can be found at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622
  - esolyt 14y ago
    I already said "except Flash and PDF reader". People are using an open source browser + Flash Player + PDF Reader. If you don't trust Google's Flash player and PDF reader, feel free to take them out. In fact, you don't have to, because using Chromium would be equivalent to doing this.
- bzbarsky 14y ago
  There are various other exceptions too. For example, I believe that Chrome will play H.264 and MP3 and AAC, while Chromium will not.

esolyt 14y ago

To be fair, Google Chrome is completely open source too, expect for the integrated PDF Reader and Flash. You can compile Chromium from the source and add these two manually, if you need them.

joelthelion 14y ago
It is, but using it means that Google gets your vote when discussing the future of the web. I'd rather have Mozilla shaping the web than Google.
- pixelbath 14y ago
  Since Chromium is actually using the WebKit engine, wouldn't it be Apple, and not Google?
  - jballanc 14y ago
    It's a bit of both with a healthy sprinkling of Nokia, Samsung, and quite a few others. In reality, WebKit has been driving the standards process for quite some time now (especially considering its unrivaled dominance on mobile).
  - riledhel 14y ago
    Apple is just one of several companies and developers of the WebKit engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit
  - joelthelion 14y ago
    It's Google that decides what features and protocols are implemented into Chrome. Since they control a large share of the market, it basically gives them life or death power on new features of web languages.
toemetoch 14y ago
FYI: difference between Chrome and Chromium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Differences_from_Google_Chrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)#Differen...

lumberjack 14y ago

And Vimperator/Pentadactly! Seriously, it grew so much into me that I can't browse the web without those add-ons any more!

moystard 14y ago

Same here. I had switched to Chrome a few months ago but have switched back since then. The last versions of Firefox are a great step toward the perfect browser: excellent performances and startup time, great addons, and a smaller memory footprint than Chrome.

antninja 14y ago

Firefox used to be my browser of choice, but now it's the worst of all for me. There are two main problems: 1. Sometimes I start FF and it tells me that its process is still running. It happens too often that I close FF and it fails to properly terminate its process. The result is that I can't open FF until I kill it in the task manager. 2. Firefox is the only browser in which Flash crashes. Almost every day I had to search for the "Plugin container for Firefox" in the task manager and manually kill it. Today the browsers that "just work" are IE9 and Chrome. I can't use Chrome all the time because it doesn't open images in Twitter, probably because images use http and Twitter uses https. Every browser has its own little problems. Those of Firefox are too much for me.

robin_reala 14y ago
Sounds like a corrupt profile. If you’re interested in trying to fix it then you could delete your profile and start again (or if you’re running a beta or newer Firefox go to about:support and click on ‘Reset Firefox’).
- shibboleth 14y ago
  I don't know about that. I get the same issues even with Aurora (as do many of my colleagues).
aluhut 14y ago
I know your problem from 1. but after some time on Chrome (Chromium) I realised that it's faster to kill one FF process instead of killing x chrome processes looking for the right one that is broken and still running after I "closed" the browser. I don't know what it was that crashed my chrome that often. It must have been java or flash because it broke down on pages that are loaded with these. In the end I came back to ff. All my good addons are there, they all work and if it breaks down it's way faster to kill then chrome. Initially I tried chrome because I thought it may eat up less memory but the difference was not really big on all the chrome processes compared to the ff one.
drhowarddrfine 14y ago
It sounds like you are having issues with your computer. Perhaps you need to take it the the Geek Squad and have them look it over. You can always find someone who has issues with everything. Most people don't have any problems at all.

bmj 14y ago

Thoughts on SRWare's Iron Chromium implementation? http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php

justinschuh 14y ago
Full disclosure: I work on Chrome. Accepting that, I think it's pretty clear that Iron is scamware. It's just an outdated Chromium build with some hardcoded preferences and support for a text file of blocked URLs (something far better implemented by extensions). The creator makes money from ads on the homepage, default search provider, and install page. You can read a bit more background here: http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.html http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.ht... Coincidentally, I recently poked at Iron to determine if it includes the security and stability fixes we merge for stable releases. So, I tried to get the source code to make the analysis easier. It turns out there's no repository, and I had to wait eight hours pulling 1GB of archives from Rapidshare. When I finally opened it I found a tarball from Chrome 6, which is almost two years old (even though Iron is obviously using Chrome 18). So, I don't think the creator is very concerned about keeping up pretenses (like being an open source project) anymore.
polshaw 14y ago
My understanding was it was a 'fake' in that it offered 0 more than vanilla chromium in terms of separation from google/privacy (although chromium is a pain to update- and even somewhat difficult to find downloads for).

sneak 14y ago

How is managing the development of something that is totally open source "controlling everything"? That's like claiming that you don't want to use Linux because you don't trust Linus. The code is there. If they do something you don't like, you can always fork.

pimeys 14y ago
Mozilla foundation > Google.
- esolyt 14y ago
  Powerful counter argument.
Sargis 14y ago
Chrome's not open source, Chromium is.
joelthelion 14y ago
Read my answers to this comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4001959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4001959 Openness of the code is only part of the problem.
pimeys 14y ago
Maybe a better counter argument is, that I don't really have a big trust for corporations. I can trust Linus because he's a hacker just like I am. I can trust Mozilla because their goal is to build web as hackers. Then we have a big advertisement company who are building some nice things, but they still have the desire to sell commercials. To gather data about us and do some data mining. That's the reason I prefer Mozilla over Google as an organization. I apologize my bad argument before.