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Bad take. Do both. Nobody is pretending this will solve all issues. Its a step in the right direction. Both in terms of putting more units towards residents and

Bad take. Do both. Nobody is pretending this will solve all issues. Its a step in the right direction. Both in terms of putting more units towards residents and discouraging people from speculating on the housing market by buying short-term rental properties.

epistasis 2y ago
Disagree heartily. Banning AirBNB is about saying "these people don't deserve to stay here" which is the same attitude that says "we can't build housing or the wrong sort of person might get some" which is the core problem in Hawaii and other NIMBY areas. The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of benighted souls get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all?
- pempem 2y ago
  The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of -- rich people -- get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all Your comment honestly sounds like you personally feel attacked. Money has been shown to be moving a lot of hawaii's policy, purchases from the california .1% are well documented. The benighted souls are not who you suggest them to be.
  - epistasis 2y ago
    What is wealth, other than having something that lots of other people want? I don't feel personally attacked, but I do have strong priors that we should try to make society work for as many people as possible, and also that land was created by none, and must be mediated for the benefit of all. I did not suggest that any particular set of people are the benighted ones, and honestly I'm not sure who you think I thought they were.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > Banning AirBNB is about saying... ...whatever the lawmakers say it's about. I moved into our rental in 2021. At the time, rental ads got 400 applications per day. Many local families with money in the bank entered homelessness that year because there was nowhere to go. The ad for ours was up for 2 hours and had over 50 apps. We won out by offering 6mos up front. Two houses down is a short term rental. People are in it 3 weeks/yr. Any one of those homeless families would have rented it if they could. One more family having a home is an actual good. Keyboard jockeys can debate policy and believe they have the answer but the latest generation of homeless don't much care about theories. They just want a bedroom.
  - epistasis 2y ago
    Sounds like you need to build more housing. Banning AirBNB won't fix these deeply disturbing issues. Call me a keyboard jockey, but when more families are homeless soon after the ban, it's because housing was not built.
- mechagodzilla 2y ago
  I think there's a better argument for banning AirBNB on an island with extremely limited land - Tourists should stay in high-density hotels to minimize their impact on land use. Converting residential housing into extremely low-density hotels is a terrible use of land in Hawaii, and something reasonable to address with zoning.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  > The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of benighted souls get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all? I was with you up until this comment. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for a locality to prioritize their land use for their permanent residents over tourists. That is, at least regarding this topic, what you describe as "only a tiny number of benighted souls" are actually the souls that live in Hawaii vs. just those that want to visit.
- sarchertech 2y ago
  They aren’t banning Airbnb they are giving local authorities the ability to prevent short term rentals in areas that are zoned for residential and agricultural use. You don’t think a community has the right to regulate land use? Short term renters don’t make good neighbors, and a community full of short term rentals isn’t really a community. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to limit them to appropriately zoned areas. I don’t see any difference between a local government telling people they can’t run retail business in residential area and telling people they can’t run a hotel.

epistasis 2y ago

Disagree heartily. Banning AirBNB is about saying "these people don't deserve to stay here" which is the same attitude that says "we can't build housing or the wrong sort of person might get some" which is the core problem in Hawaii and other NIMBY areas. The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of benighted souls get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all?

pempem 2y ago
The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of -- rich people -- get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all Your comment honestly sounds like you personally feel attacked. Money has been shown to be moving a lot of hawaii's policy, purchases from the california .1% are well documented. The benighted souls are not who you suggest them to be.
- epistasis 2y ago
  What is wealth, other than having something that lots of other people want? I don't feel personally attacked, but I do have strong priors that we should try to make society work for as many people as possible, and also that land was created by none, and must be mediated for the benefit of all. I did not suggest that any particular set of people are the benighted ones, and honestly I'm not sure who you think I thought they were.
WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
> Banning AirBNB is about saying... ...whatever the lawmakers say it's about. I moved into our rental in 2021. At the time, rental ads got 400 applications per day. Many local families with money in the bank entered homelessness that year because there was nowhere to go. The ad for ours was up for 2 hours and had over 50 apps. We won out by offering 6mos up front. Two houses down is a short term rental. People are in it 3 weeks/yr. Any one of those homeless families would have rented it if they could. One more family having a home is an actual good. Keyboard jockeys can debate policy and believe they have the answer but the latest generation of homeless don't much care about theories. They just want a bedroom.
- epistasis 2y ago
  Sounds like you need to build more housing. Banning AirBNB won't fix these deeply disturbing issues. Call me a keyboard jockey, but when more families are homeless soon after the ban, it's because housing was not built.
mechagodzilla 2y ago
I think there's a better argument for banning AirBNB on an island with extremely limited land - Tourists should stay in high-density hotels to minimize their impact on land use. Converting residential housing into extremely low-density hotels is a terrible use of land in Hawaii, and something reasonable to address with zoning.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> The core land use conflict is: do only a tiny number of benighted souls get to the use the land, or does the land belong to all? I was with you up until this comment. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for a locality to prioritize their land use for their permanent residents over tourists. That is, at least regarding this topic, what you describe as "only a tiny number of benighted souls" are actually the souls that live in Hawaii vs. just those that want to visit.
sarchertech 2y ago
They aren’t banning Airbnb they are giving local authorities the ability to prevent short term rentals in areas that are zoned for residential and agricultural use. You don’t think a community has the right to regulate land use? Short term renters don’t make good neighbors, and a community full of short term rentals isn’t really a community. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to limit them to appropriately zoned areas. I don’t see any difference between a local government telling people they can’t run retail business in residential area and telling people they can’t run a hotel.