5 ms·

Artificially restricting yourself to inferior silicon is a great way to boost your economy. /s

bayindirh 3y ago
RockChip's ARM SoC's are quite fast actually. I run a couple of OrangePi 5Bs which work quite nicely. Mind you these are 4+4 bigLITTLE systems with 35 degrees C idle without any tuning and passive cooling. Huawei is also quite improved on hardware reliability and design department in the last years, so there's no need for concern for them. They still need a Infiniband equivalent network layer for HPC, though.
- redleader55 3y ago
  I think the poster above was referring to the node size, to which China will not have access because TSMC & Samsung prefer to sell to the West.
- spookie 3y ago
  Their media capabilities are quite meh however
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Let’s take a look: RK3588S: - 8K60P output over HDMI 2.1 - OpenGL ES 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan 1.2 - 6 TOPS AI accelerator with INT4/8/16 support - Real time H265/H264 encoding up to 8K30P, parallel encoding with less resolution, plus decodes tons of format up to 8K, plus JPEG decoder. Details are at https://www.cnx-software.com/pdf/Rockchip%C2%A0RK3588%C2%A0Datasheet%C2%A0V0.1-20210727.pdf https://www.cnx-software.com/pdf/Rockchip%C2%A0RK3588%C2%A0D...
swed420 3y ago
China's economy seems to be doing just fine https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/chinas-unfair-overcapacity/ https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/chinas-unf...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  This week's cover of The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2024/04/04/this-weeks-cover https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2024/04/04/thi... > This week we had one worldwide cover. China’s famously industrious workforce is shrinking, its property boom has ended and the system of free trade that helped it grow rich is disintegrating. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/04/xi-jinpings-misguided-plan-to-escape-economic-stagnation https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/04/xi-jinpings-mis...
  - swed420 3y ago
    My reply was in the context of the parent comment. > China’s famously industrious workforce is shrinking, its property boom has ended and the system of free trade that helped it grow rich is disintegrating. Unsurprising, using capitalist interpretations of what's "good" and "bad" as reported by capitalist media, but those are increasingly ridiculous things to value in a human sense, particularly with the rise of complex automation and who should benefit from it. https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/chinas-next-decade/ https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/chinas-nex...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - kkzz99 3y ago
    Good thing The Economist is so reliable in its reporting about China.
- toasterlovin 3y ago
  FWIW, my limited anecdotal evidence is that they're going through a rough patch. Friends with family in China report that they are very much in a recession. And every Chinese factory we know (copper wire) is building factories in other SE Asian countries (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia) so they can be tariff-free for American customers. Which I take as a sign that the tariffs have been painful for them.
Rinzler89 3y ago
You're mistaken. Huawei's Kirin Silicon was ahead of what the likes of Qualcomm offered, right before they were banned from TSMC by the US. It was a damn shame too, right when Qualcomm was getting some needed competition, the US ban happened. Convenient for Qualcomm but a huge blow to consumers.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  Kirin wasn't ahead, they were "just" head to head with Qualcomm. But that's not very hard if you use generic ARM design and can pay for the BEST TSMC node. Producing good/great ARM SoCs is simply a function of producing in TSMC. The reason why Google abd Samsung SoCs are mediocre is that they produce them in Samsung fabs.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    You're also mistaken. Qualcomm rarely used "generic" cores. Just like Apple, they had their own custom designs(Kryo) based on the generic specs(Cortex), which were instruction compatible but more efficient, that being one of the reason why they were ahead of the competition using generic ARM cores on TSMC, like MediaTek.
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      I was talking about Kirin who did use the generic cores. Qualcomm had at times their customized cores closer or farther from the generic design, with mixed success.
phkahler 3y ago
They are pouring lots of effort into their own EUV lithography tools. Given the complexity of the ASML approach, I bet China will have the best (cheapest at leading nodes) litho tools on earth in 15 years. They'll also have world class designs based on RISC-V. They are playing a long game.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  This is nonsense and assumes the Chinese are just better than everyone else and will 'win in the end'. The real issue is that China is an oppressive totalitarian state and that's counterproductive to the innovation and creativity that is actually needed to compete and succeed. China will obviously do well in some areas it has a natural advantage in, we've already seen those, meanwhile it'll go backwards overall. Not because it can't catch up, but because the game will change in ways it can't foresee or understand.
fooker 3y ago
In the short term, it's a disaster. Long term though, this enables them to flood the world with previous-gen chips at 1/4th the price. Oh, and invade Taiwan.
hackerlight 3y ago
It makes sense if you assume they are planning to invade Taiwan by about 2027 like some foreign policy and military people are saying. That's supposed to be the year at which they're at maximum relative military strength after which they'll decline relative to the US. As does their massive investments in renewables and nuclear, they need to get off imported natural gas if they're going to invade since natural gas imports from middle east will be blockaded.

RockChip's ARM SoC's are quite fast actually. I run a couple of OrangePi 5Bs which work quite nicely. Mind you these are 4+4 bigLITTLE systems with 35 degrees C idle without any tuning and passive cooling. Huawei is also quite improved on hardware reliability and design department in the last years, so there's no need for concern for them. They still need a Infiniband equivalent network layer for HPC, though.

redleader55 3y ago
I think the poster above was referring to the node size, to which China will not have access because TSMC & Samsung prefer to sell to the West.
spookie 3y ago
Their media capabilities are quite meh however
- bayindirh 3y ago
  Let’s take a look: RK3588S: - 8K60P output over HDMI 2.1 - OpenGL ES 3.2, OpenCL 2.2, Vulkan 1.2 - 6 TOPS AI accelerator with INT4/8/16 support - Real time H265/H264 encoding up to 8K30P, parallel encoding with less resolution, plus decodes tons of format up to 8K, plus JPEG decoder. Details are at https://www.cnx-software.com/pdf/Rockchip%C2%A0RK3588%C2%A0Datasheet%C2%A0V0.1-20210727.pdf https://www.cnx-software.com/pdf/Rockchip%C2%A0RK3588%C2%A0D...

swed420 3y ago

China's economy seems to be doing just fine https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/chinas-unfair-overcapacity/ https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/chinas-unf...

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
This week's cover of The Economist: https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2024/04/04/this-weeks-cover https://www.economist.com/the-world-this-week/2024/04/04/thi... > This week we had one worldwide cover. China’s famously industrious workforce is shrinking, its property boom has ended and the system of free trade that helped it grow rich is disintegrating. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/04/xi-jinpings-misguided-plan-to-escape-economic-stagnation https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/04/04/xi-jinpings-mis...
- swed420 3y ago
  My reply was in the context of the parent comment. > China’s famously industrious workforce is shrinking, its property boom has ended and the system of free trade that helped it grow rich is disintegrating. Unsurprising, using capitalist interpretations of what's "good" and "bad" as reported by capitalist media, but those are increasingly ridiculous things to value in a human sense, particularly with the rise of complex automation and who should benefit from it. https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/chinas-next-decade/ https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2024/03/08/chinas-nex...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- kkzz99 3y ago
  Good thing The Economist is so reliable in its reporting about China.
toasterlovin 3y ago
FWIW, my limited anecdotal evidence is that they're going through a rough patch. Friends with family in China report that they are very much in a recession. And every Chinese factory we know (copper wire) is building factories in other SE Asian countries (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia) so they can be tariff-free for American customers. Which I take as a sign that the tariffs have been painful for them.

Rinzler89 3y ago

You're mistaken. Huawei's Kirin Silicon was ahead of what the likes of Qualcomm offered, right before they were banned from TSMC by the US. It was a damn shame too, right when Qualcomm was getting some needed competition, the US ban happened. Convenient for Qualcomm but a huge blow to consumers.

The_Colonel 3y ago
Kirin wasn't ahead, they were "just" head to head with Qualcomm. But that's not very hard if you use generic ARM design and can pay for the BEST TSMC node. Producing good/great ARM SoCs is simply a function of producing in TSMC. The reason why Google abd Samsung SoCs are mediocre is that they produce them in Samsung fabs.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  You're also mistaken. Qualcomm rarely used "generic" cores. Just like Apple, they had their own custom designs(Kryo) based on the generic specs(Cortex), which were instruction compatible but more efficient, that being one of the reason why they were ahead of the competition using generic ARM cores on TSMC, like MediaTek.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    I was talking about Kirin who did use the generic cores. Qualcomm had at times their customized cores closer or farther from the generic design, with mixed success.

phkahler 3y ago

They are pouring lots of effort into their own EUV lithography tools. Given the complexity of the ASML approach, I bet China will have the best (cheapest at leading nodes) litho tools on earth in 15 years. They'll also have world class designs based on RISC-V. They are playing a long game.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
This is nonsense and assumes the Chinese are just better than everyone else and will 'win in the end'. The real issue is that China is an oppressive totalitarian state and that's counterproductive to the innovation and creativity that is actually needed to compete and succeed. China will obviously do well in some areas it has a natural advantage in, we've already seen those, meanwhile it'll go backwards overall. Not because it can't catch up, but because the game will change in ways it can't foresee or understand.

fooker 3y ago

In the short term, it's a disaster. Long term though, this enables them to flood the world with previous-gen chips at 1/4th the price. Oh, and invade Taiwan.

hackerlight 3y ago

It makes sense if you assume they are planning to invade Taiwan by about 2027 like some foreign policy and military people are saying. That's supposed to be the year at which they're at maximum relative military strength after which they'll decline relative to the US. As does their massive investments in renewables and nuclear, they need to get off imported natural gas if they're going to invade since natural gas imports from middle east will be blockaded.