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A big thing with ADHD is as society optimizes, there's less "unproductive" spaces for people to exist in. I think of my own experience. I can focus long period

A big thing with ADHD is as society optimizes, there's less "unproductive" spaces for people to exist in. I think of my own experience. I can focus long periods of time on something interesting that solves a problem, but when most work is simply business logic and reinventing the same uninteresting wheel at a desk for 40hrs a week, I feel like a caged animal and cannot focus whatsoever. The behaviors associated with ADHD are quite literally anachronistic. The ability to take in a lot of stimuli and react on it would have been extremely useful during say, a hunter-gatherer time. Someone to try to figure out what those weird berries are useful for, fiddling with some sticks and ending up with a tool, etc. We're really not meant to sit around all day being "productive".

nonameiguess 2y ago
I try to tell my wife this all the time. She has ADHD, and possibly only that, but diagnosed with and treated for generalized anxiety and depression at various points. She likes to act like I'm some kind of mentally perfect person and I should breed with someone else because our children shouldn't inherit her traits. To the contrary, I think those traits need to stay in the human gene pool. I'm extremely well adapted to a predictable, boring, overwhelmingly safe environment, but there is no guarantee the human environment will remain this way. Calling ADHD behaviors anachronistic is probably basically correct, but I think it's important to remember this doesn't mean we'll never again need them. They were adaptive in the past and may again be adaptive in the future. The important thing for humanity overall is to have a wide variety of behavioral traits so we can collectively adapt as needed when circumstances change. We do not want everyone to be perfectly adapted to the exact present moment. That's how extinctions happen.
- Thiez 2y ago
  So you would breed with her out of some enlightened eugenics reasons, then? No matter the potential personal cost to your offspring? How... noble?
  - HeckFeck 2y ago
    I don't think there is any moral problem here. Attraction works in that way to promote variation.* *The least sexiest way of saying "opposites attract", but I am wearing my HN mask.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    What are you getting at with your leading questions? It would be clearer if you just came out and said it. I don't know why you jump to the extreme of "no matter the potential cost", they absolutely did not say that. They are talking about one specific trait, and think it is acceptable, not making some blanket statement. They aren't claiming trisomy or Huntingtons is acceptable. ADHD isn't a death sentence and some people benefit from it today.
HeckFeck 2y ago
> most work is simply business logic and reinventing the same uninteresting wheel at a desk for 40hrs a week, I feel like a caged animal and cannot focus whatsoever. This is how I feel learning this week's popular JavaScript UI framework just to make a button appear on a webpage and handle a click, or here's another generic CRUD operation with a PUT on the controller, how enthralling! And my brain retreats from reality. Like it would rather off itself than take another step. And I'm not going to medicate that, I don't think it is "wrong" or anything to do with health. It just feels like part of me is speaking. Like my unconscious, or gut, or a combination thereof is signalling that this isn't the place for me. I need to move and spend my energy. Maybe I will quit the industry, or at least move away from webdev. Could probably extrapolate this experience to school - some kids aren't cut out for sitting still and learning how to factorise quadratics for the 4th time this week. (Speaking for myself again, but I got that the first time, why over and over again?). Thankfully I wasn't in school when medication was fashionable. I pity this generation.
- MSFT_Edging 2y ago
  I've only recently had to touch any kind of JS framework in my almost 6 years working. I'm trained far closer to hardware and I love hacking on embedded devices. I only got medicated as an adult because I'm just not designed to do the same thing day after day. I had a break at work where I was able to design basically a toy for some recruiting. Did the PCB design, firmware, handled manufacturing, designed 3d printed programming jigs, wrote the flashing scripts, etc. All in a span of about 3 months. I was born to prototype widgets and gadgets but society doesn't have a lot of use for that kind of interdisciplinary skillset. Folks will say "join a startup" but I needed a month to recover from the burnout of that push, so I don't think it'd be healthy for me to go somewhere that expects that LOE year round.
  - HeckFeck 2y ago
    The idea that you will be steadily productive 9-5, 5 days a week, for most months of the year, is a post-Industrial expectation. Our ancestors knew mostly "long" days that ended at 5, followed by "slow" days that ended at 12. And the workdays shrunk in later months because there was less daylight. I do wonder if that's part of it - some of us aren't built for conventional work cycles, but most people are and it it is something we can't expect to reshape easily. My source is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvk_XylEmLo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvk_XylEmLo
therobots927 2y ago
We aren’t meant to sit around all day writing business logic. Luckily I have the ability to do that, because I’d rather not break my back working construction. So I take my meds and do my job.
Terr_ 2y ago
> A big thing with ADHD is as society optimizes, there's less "unproductive" spaces for people to exist in. I don't think it's that black and white, consider how civilization-changes have made more space for "unproductive" people who would previously have been abandoned for the wolves.
- trashface 2y ago
  ASD adults still have much higher unemployment rates that average Don't even need a formal diagnosis, autistic traits seem sufficient. I do "well" on autism tests but have no diagnosis, and am unemployed.

nonameiguess 2y ago

I try to tell my wife this all the time. She has ADHD, and possibly only that, but diagnosed with and treated for generalized anxiety and depression at various points. She likes to act like I'm some kind of mentally perfect person and I should breed with someone else because our children shouldn't inherit her traits. To the contrary, I think those traits need to stay in the human gene pool. I'm extremely well adapted to a predictable, boring, overwhelmingly safe environment, but there is no guarantee the human environment will remain this way. Calling ADHD behaviors anachronistic is probably basically correct, but I think it's important to remember this doesn't mean we'll never again need them. They were adaptive in the past and may again be adaptive in the future. The important thing for humanity overall is to have a wide variety of behavioral traits so we can collectively adapt as needed when circumstances change. We do not want everyone to be perfectly adapted to the exact present moment. That's how extinctions happen.

Thiez 2y ago
So you would breed with her out of some enlightened eugenics reasons, then? No matter the potential personal cost to your offspring? How... noble?
- HeckFeck 2y ago
  I don't think there is any moral problem here. Attraction works in that way to promote variation.* *The least sexiest way of saying "opposites attract", but I am wearing my HN mask.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  What are you getting at with your leading questions? It would be clearer if you just came out and said it. I don't know why you jump to the extreme of "no matter the potential cost", they absolutely did not say that. They are talking about one specific trait, and think it is acceptable, not making some blanket statement. They aren't claiming trisomy or Huntingtons is acceptable. ADHD isn't a death sentence and some people benefit from it today.

HeckFeck 2y ago

> most work is simply business logic and reinventing the same uninteresting wheel at a desk for 40hrs a week, I feel like a caged animal and cannot focus whatsoever. This is how I feel learning this week's popular JavaScript UI framework just to make a button appear on a webpage and handle a click, or here's another generic CRUD operation with a PUT on the controller, how enthralling! And my brain retreats from reality. Like it would rather off itself than take another step. And I'm not going to medicate that, I don't think it is "wrong" or anything to do with health. It just feels like part of me is speaking. Like my unconscious, or gut, or a combination thereof is signalling that this isn't the place for me. I need to move and spend my energy. Maybe I will quit the industry, or at least move away from webdev. Could probably extrapolate this experience to school - some kids aren't cut out for sitting still and learning how to factorise quadratics for the 4th time this week. (Speaking for myself again, but I got that the first time, why over and over again?). Thankfully I wasn't in school when medication was fashionable. I pity this generation.

MSFT_Edging 2y ago
I've only recently had to touch any kind of JS framework in my almost 6 years working. I'm trained far closer to hardware and I love hacking on embedded devices. I only got medicated as an adult because I'm just not designed to do the same thing day after day. I had a break at work where I was able to design basically a toy for some recruiting. Did the PCB design, firmware, handled manufacturing, designed 3d printed programming jigs, wrote the flashing scripts, etc. All in a span of about 3 months. I was born to prototype widgets and gadgets but society doesn't have a lot of use for that kind of interdisciplinary skillset. Folks will say "join a startup" but I needed a month to recover from the burnout of that push, so I don't think it'd be healthy for me to go somewhere that expects that LOE year round.
- HeckFeck 2y ago
  The idea that you will be steadily productive 9-5, 5 days a week, for most months of the year, is a post-Industrial expectation. Our ancestors knew mostly "long" days that ended at 5, followed by "slow" days that ended at 12. And the workdays shrunk in later months because there was less daylight. I do wonder if that's part of it - some of us aren't built for conventional work cycles, but most people are and it it is something we can't expect to reshape easily. My source is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvk_XylEmLo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvk_XylEmLo

therobots927 2y ago

We aren’t meant to sit around all day writing business logic. Luckily I have the ability to do that, because I’d rather not break my back working construction. So I take my meds and do my job.

Terr_ 2y ago

> A big thing with ADHD is as society optimizes, there's less "unproductive" spaces for people to exist in. I don't think it's that black and white, consider how civilization-changes have made more space for "unproductive" people who would previously have been abandoned for the wolves.

trashface 2y ago
ASD adults still have much higher unemployment rates that average Don't even need a formal diagnosis, autistic traits seem sufficient. I do "well" on autism tests but have no diagnosis, and am unemployed.