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Really, python only isn't the issue. Sure, it takes a while to learn a new language, but a good programmer shouldn't have that much trouble. The real problems

by mdasen 18y ago

Really, python only isn't the issue. Sure, it takes a while to learn a new language, but a good programmer shouldn't have that much trouble. The real problems are the other limitations. Background tasks, full text search, MapReduce, support for uploading files larger than 1MB, not having short bursts cause the application to exceed limits, limitations in the datastore like only returning 1,000 records. Those are real limits to what the system allows you to do. Python doesn't stop you from producing something, those limitations might. Learning a new language isn't that hard if you're a programmer.

ryanwaggoner 18y ago
It seems that for many programmers, Python-only is just another limitation in that list. Sure you can learn Python, just like there are ways to work around a lot of the other issues, but I would think that all of these limitations add up to discourage programmers from building small apps as an experiment. Learning Python just to use GAE seems dumb when you can just use EC2.
- blasdel 18y ago
  EC2 is nothing like App Engine, the only thing that relates them is that their logos are placed in cloud clipart together on powerpoint slides. App Engine is an abstract distributed REST machine. EC2 is just x86 VMs (albeit with nice provisioning APIs).
ken 18y ago
That's only true if your program (a) isn't written yet, and (b) wouldn't benefit from doing things which are difficult in Python (e.g., from being even higher-level). It's not learning time -- I already know Python quite well. I know Python-only is fine for many people, but for others it is a showstopper. I've got a bunch of Lisp code I wouldn't mind hosting on Google's servers but there's zero chance I'll ever take the time to greenspun myself macros, multimethods, parts of the MOP, various Lisp-only libraries, and so on that it uses, and then re-optimize my program for their unique architecture.
- DenisM 18y ago
  Which lisp dialect/implementation do you use? And which libraries? Do you have a blog, maybe? Thanks!
  - ken 18y ago
    Short answers: (a) Common Lisp, typically SBCL. (b) Nothing terribly exotic about the selection, but since Lisp libs tend to be Lisp-all-the-way-down (compared to wrapper-on-a-C-lib, common in the Python world) you can use them in creative ways the authors never imagined, which would elsewhere require, say, rebuilding C code with custom hooks. (c) Not yet, but my CTO keeps bugging me to start one, so maybe next week when I have more time...
- ntoshev 18y ago
  GAE is not suitable for porting existing programs to it regardless of the language: the architecture is too different.

by mdasen 18y ago

ryanwaggoner 18y ago

It seems that for many programmers, Python-only is just another limitation in that list. Sure you can learn Python, just like there are ways to work around a lot of the other issues, but I would think that all of these limitations add up to discourage programmers from building small apps as an experiment. Learning Python just to use GAE seems dumb when you can just use EC2.

blasdel 18y ago
EC2 is nothing like App Engine, the only thing that relates them is that their logos are placed in cloud clipart together on powerpoint slides. App Engine is an abstract distributed REST machine. EC2 is just x86 VMs (albeit with nice provisioning APIs).

ken 18y ago

That's only true if your program (a) isn't written yet, and (b) wouldn't benefit from doing things which are difficult in Python (e.g., from being even higher-level). It's not learning time -- I already know Python quite well. I know Python-only is fine for many people, but for others it is a showstopper. I've got a bunch of Lisp code I wouldn't mind hosting on Google's servers but there's zero chance I'll ever take the time to greenspun myself macros, multimethods, parts of the MOP, various Lisp-only libraries, and so on that it uses, and then re-optimize my program for their unique architecture.

DenisM 18y ago
Which lisp dialect/implementation do you use? And which libraries? Do you have a blog, maybe? Thanks!
- ken 18y ago
  Short answers: (a) Common Lisp, typically SBCL. (b) Nothing terribly exotic about the selection, but since Lisp libs tend to be Lisp-all-the-way-down (compared to wrapper-on-a-C-lib, common in the Python world) you can use them in creative ways the authors never imagined, which would elsewhere require, say, rebuilding C code with custom hooks. (c) Not yet, but my CTO keeps bugging me to start one, so maybe next week when I have more time...
ntoshev 18y ago
GAE is not suitable for porting existing programs to it regardless of the language: the architecture is too different.