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Suicide is on the rise for young Americans, with no clear answers
- Hrnrurj 3y ago[flagged]
- kelseyfrog 3y agoComplain about what?
- boesboes 3y agoI think it's referring to the idea that men (in general) are lonely, never get compliments, and told to man-up if they open up in any way. That men are taught to suffer alone and not complain. When they do they get ostracised. I don't think that is really relevant tbh, if anything this is recognised more and men _are_ encouraged to open up more etc.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoIn this particular case, the fact that Ben was previously in therapy for depression makes this a less compelling argument.
- Hrnrurj 3y ago[flagged]
- ak_111 3y agoPlaying devil's advocate here but do you think men are listened to when they complain say in China, Saudi Arabia or Germany where suicide in the young is much lower?
- Hrnrurj 3y ago[flagged]
- gadflyinyoureye 3y ago[flagged]
- BadHumans 3y agoNo clear answers? The world is teetering on the edge of world war, young people will never own a home or anything really, wealth inequality continues to get worse, social media is tearing apart the fabric of society, people are constantly inundated with negative news(yes I understand the irony here), among a million other issues. They are right I suppose. There are no clear answers because everything seems fucked.
- dangond 3y agoWhat makes you say teetering on the edge of world war? Is there some recent news I've missed?
- aurareturn 3y agoIt’s the constant China fear mongering and 24/7 hour coverage of wars like Ukraine, Israel. Fear gets clicks and views.
- reducesuffering 3y agoThere is a more than likely chance that China will invade Taiwan by 2030 and US will possibly intervene to stop that slaughter. Is that fear mongering?
- BirAdam 3y agoThe US will likely intervene to make money for defense contractors who fund political campaigns.* FTFY.
- reducesuffering 3y agoDo you really see no value in helping other people not be conquered and killed?
- BirAdam 3y ago
- nikanj 3y agoWe to took away all hope of ever getting ahead in life, and constantly bombard them with extremely successful people parroting "It's literally that easy". The deadly combination of not being able to afford food/rent and being told that you're just a few tiktoks/onlyfans/hustles away from an independently wealthy lifestyle
- prawn 3y agoNot enough information from the primary example in the article, but I agree that cost of living would be a huge pressure in general. Certainly 20yo and up. And social media pushes quick fixes rather than the typical long haul of university and steady job towards reaching a comfortable life or at least something that feels like progress.
- NoGravitas 3y agoWell, increasingly that long haul of university and steady job just leads to student debt and being pinched by cost of living increases that outpace the nominal rate of inflation. No wonder people dream about quick fixes - even if or especially because they are a long shot. Edited to add, it's only worse that a lot of these quick fixes are fraudulent; the van life or trad wife influencers are often recipients of generational wealth to begin with.
- kelseyfrog 3y agoThe fear of getting sectioned hangs over folks heads. Knowing what can and can't be shared with who is part of navigating the mental health system. My wife shared too much, was held for three days and experienced SA while there. It made things much worse. There's very few resources for people who have ideation, would benefit from talking about it, and don't want to be sectioned.
- jvanderbot 3y agoI am not familiar with the term sectioned. USA translation is "committed" as in mental health involuntary hospitalization.
- leetrout 3y agoFor anyone else that did not know, as I did not, "sectioned" or "sectioning" is involuntary commitment to a mental health facility. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/sectioning/overview/ https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/sec...
- kelseyfrog 3y agoThank you! I didn't know it was a UK thing until now. I live in the US and use the terms interchangeably.
- ipaddr 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoWhich vaccines?
- ipaddr 3y agoCovid
- SketchySeaBeast 3y agoIn the graph in the article you'll notice a steady increase since 2000 and that since the vaccine was rolled out there hasn't been an out of character change, beside the initial drop in suicides.
- opentokix 3y agoIt is because USA is a dystopian hellscape where you will grind your life away with no upside. - So they rather kill themselfs.
- zenlf 3y agoIs that the reason why millions of people tried to come to the states, legally or illegally, every single year?
- kelipso 3y agoIt's a rich dystopian hellscape where you will grind your life away with no upside. Well upside is the potentially getting rich part I guess.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- a2800276 3y agoThe suicide rate among that demographic is likely not quite as high.
- hiddencost 3y agoI've heard this line before. It's very dumb.
- bnpxft 3y agoThey come here because America has made a far worst hellscape of their homeland through extreme resource extraction and coups. Western extractive capitalism strip mines the Global South of all local wealth leaving the local population in extreme poverty. America looks like paradise in comparison. ‘We will coup whoever we want!’ - Elon Musk.
- dang 3y agoOk, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
- VyseofArcadia 3y agoNote that per the CDC[0], suicides are not just higher, they are also significantly higher when normalized by population size, from 10.7 per 100k in 2001 to 14.1 per 100k in 2021. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db464.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db464.pdf
- pelagicAustral 3y ago> No clear answers. Literally 2 days ago: "Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39983233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39983233
- NoGravitas 3y agoThat's an opinion piece by someone who has made a career out of claiming social media is the cause of teenage depression. He also originally made his name as a political commentator by telling Democrats that the reason they weren't electorally successful is that they weren't racist enough.
- anonfordays 3y ago[dead]
- retskrad 3y agoAmericans are the most privileged people on earth. They have the highest pay, they have the highest ability to climb the social ladder, they never have to be afraid to be conscripted and sent to war, they’ll never see a bomb go off on their home soil, they don’t have to fear Putin or China invading them. Are non-Americans supposed to feel bad for these privileged people?
- spacecadet 3y agoPeople die every day in America thanks to gun and "bomb" violence. Yes we are highly privileged people, but for most, its a hellscape.
- BirAdam 3y agoUh… growing up in America isn’t all gravy. I grew up near a uranium enrichment facility and toxic waste dump and have lifelong health issues from that. I also have known an unusually high number of people who died way too early from very rare cancers as a result. I also watched the city I lived in set on fire with riots. Friends of mine have been murdered. My story isn’t unique, nor are the conditions. Having more money or more access to credit doesn’t magically make everything better, it can actually just hide some of the problems a bit better for a much longer period of time. Edit: removed an edit.
- Der_Einzige 3y agoDamn it feels good to be an American. If you’re a Buddhist, then you can interpret the privilege as a sign that most Americans were good people in their past lives too! They earned it! A nation of mostly good karma. Can you believe it? Really rustles the “I hate my country because we are colonizers” crowd like Howard Zinn - especially when you look to the religious beliefs of the people in those conquered countries (I.e Cambodia, Myanmar, Vietnam)
- logicalfails 3y agoIn my very subjective opinion, we are reaching a question of what is the meaning of life when you essentially have most of what you need. Outside of religion, many people don't have a reason to live for, except pursuing even more wealth/goods/comfort. And if they don't believe that's possible for themselves, living in mediocrity becomes a depressing, routine grind for many.
- spacecadet 3y agoThe social media psy-op is succeeding. We need to help get some people off their phones and back helping their communities and building local in person relationships that have meaning and impact.
- ryanmcbride 3y agoIt takes a certain level of hacker newsiness to see increasing suicide rates and come to the conclusion thing things aren't that bad people are just overreacting to bad data.
- krapp 3y ago[flagged]
- NoGravitas 3y agoYep, real Pinker Thinkers around here.
- silent_cal 3y agoI had a thought that maybe increased marijuana use is a factor in this. I did a quick search and there are a quite a few studies and stories on the relationship between marijuana use and suicidal thoughts and attempts. It could also be that people who already have other factors turn to marijuana, which makes it worse instead of better. I'm sure it's not the only thing, but it is a major change for 20-somethings in the last 10 years or so that they have much easier access to THC products that are extraordinarily potent.
- SuperNinKenDo 3y agoThere's only no clear answers because we're forced to take as axiomatic that suicide is "irrational". Once you stop genuflecting at this truism, and look at how completely stuffed young people are, it makes a whole lot more sense.
- ak_111 3y agoSo many possible answers are being proposed in this thread that don't seem to take into consideration that the interesting phenomena to explain here is why the increase is specifically high in America. So far some of the proposals include: the world is teetering on the edge, men are not listened to and social media usage. I don't see why any of these three things impact Americans disproportionately compared to say to places like Saudi Arabia, Germany and China where suicide in the young is much less than the US. Given that suicide tends to impact 2x to 3x times more the unemployed than the employed [1], what is truly interesting here in my opinion is that America has an even higher young suicide rate than places with very high youth unemployment such as South Europe or Middle East. My guess it is something to do with culture, family ties and the stigma of not being in work or "productive". [1] https://jech.bmj.com/content/57/8/594 https://jech.bmj.com/content/57/8/594 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9298506/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9298506/
- 082349872349872 3y agoWhen I was traveling in the "third world", I noticed that although it was bad to be poor in those countries, it was often very good to be rich. The Old Country has a similar vibe, and I think (in any country) the young are far more likely to be (economically if not culturally) poor than rich.
- ak_111 3y agoWhat I noticed in many countries with traditionally high youth unemployment, say like Egypt or Greece, it is considered normal to be young and unemployed and just living off your family, there wasn't much of a stigma attached to it. In fact people will declare to you "I live with one of my kids who finished university three years ago and is currently unemployed" with no hint of disappointment, but the situation in some parts of the west and especially the US, people will talk about unemployed university graduates as total losers and embarrassment.
- 082349872349872 3y agoI suspect the tradition that kids move out right after school is a result of countries (in my experience: US and Sweden) having had a lot of unused space, whereas in countries which have always been densely populated, that expectation isn't there. compare https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/d/d0/Young_people_leaving_the_parental_household_2020.png/1200px-Young_people_leaving_the_parental_household_2020.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/th... EDIT: also, at the high end of the US real estate market, I note that the phrase "family compound" was often correlated with "price upon request".
- bayareateg 3y agoI am surprised to not see increase in prescription of psychotropic drugs to young people as being one of the (many possible) reasons. Drugs to treat ADHD and other behavioral/emotional problems have become much more common
- anotherhue 3y agoWhat's different to the war years (hot and cold) is the absence of hope. In those cases there was unity that things were bad and we were all going to fix them. In our times the answer is 'things are bad and the system is working as intended'. I read some harrowing pieces about the AIDS epidemic and the hopelessness that came from the dismissal of the rest of the world and it felt similar (worse obviously).
- readyman 3y ago>there was unity that things were bad and we were all going to fix them. Correction: Working people were organized so the capitalist class had to do what the workers told them to do.
- NoGravitas 3y agoTo some extent, certainly. In the US and Western Europe, there was a period of class collaboration or class reconciliation that lasted from the end of WWII to the early 1970s. Labor unions were strong, but were also willing to settle for fairly limited demands and avoid open conflict. The existence of a strong Communist bloc meant that capitalist countries had to treat their workers well enough to win the propaganda war. This detente started breaking down in the 1970s, and after the collapse of the Soviet Union, all bets were off, leading to the enshittification of capitalist society we see today.
- readyman 3y ago"the war years" is not "the end of WWII to the early 1970s"
- silverquiet 3y agoI had hoped that the pandemic might give us a common cause to unite against, and instead I learned that people were unwilling to make the token gesture of wearing a mask and became vaccine deniers (reaching beyond the covid vaccines now). I did not have much hope before then, but I lost essentially all of it after that.
- 3y ago
- NuSkooler 3y agoNo clear answers? Maybe you should ask some of them. The younger generations are constantly talking about it - while the older generations are constantly talking about it as well, just from a different perspective. People are tired of capitalism reducing them to numbers that the powers that be -- now corporate interests -- give no shits about.
- drewcoo 3y agoI wasn't aware that suicide was a question. Or is this another one of those "ask HN" statements?
- mikewarot 3y agoI don't know if the rest of the world went for the idea of the "atomic family" like we did, and subsequent disconnection from extended family, but it can't help.