5 ms·

We need better open source and decentralized technologies that cannot be blocked in this manner. The walled garden model, which Discord also uses, is always goi

We need better open source and decentralized technologies that cannot be blocked in this manner. The walled garden model, which Discord also uses, is always going to be susceptible to this type of takedown. Expect more of this as they gear up to go public, in a bid to look “legitimate” just like Reddit.

danielheath 3y ago
Mattermost is not hard to host, and it's a damn sight nicer to use these days than discord is. Hard to break the "I don't want to use another new system" barrier though.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  If you require more than two clicks to create a server then you’re not in the same market as Discord. The point of Discord is that users can make servers instantly. Discord users often make temporary servers to suit a particular need at a particular time when a group of people need to collaborate. Some of these servers become permanent, some die. If there’s any friction to creating a server then it loses the dynamic of how communities start on discord.
DeepYogurt 3y ago
Like IRC?
- vsnf 3y ago
  Like IRC, but not. Something modern with better authentication, better persistence, and better UX.
  - movedx 3y ago
    Better everything: Matrix.
    - gsich 3y ago
      Debatable.
      - thiht 3y ago
        It’s not debatable that Matrix is better than IRC. The IRC clients are mostly bad and ugly, and they don’t even implement basic formatting features (bold, italic) in the same way. NickServ sucks. Having to use bouncers to keep track of history sucks, this only makes it a non suitable choice for a chat platform today. Does IRC even support long messages and multi line messages yet? Oh and btw, net split is not acceptable today.
        AAAAaccountAAAA 3y ago
        Matrix is not better than IRC. It is in some ways much worse. While I get that IRC has not exactly aged well, Matrix' performance and reliability problems are much worse than the very rare netsplits. IRC sucks, but it can be made more or less tolerable with things like IRCCloud or Lounge (or tmux+weehcat if you happen to prefer something like that), but AFAIK nothing can help with the poor performance and the unreliability of Matrix. While Matrix developers have finally acknowledged the problems, they have run out of venture capital, and have hard time getting any funding to fix the protocol, clients and servers.
        gsich 3y ago
        It is. They might be ugly, but most are fast. It shouldn't take more than 0.1s to display a new tab or channel.
        daeros 3y ago
        Hahahaha, the lack of features is a feature. All that shit is bloat, no thank you.
        thiht 3y ago
        Yeah, not having proper nickname ownership beyond the crap NickServ offers is not a feature, it's a gross overlook from a time where we could afford to be naive on the internet. And considering multiline messages as "bloat" is a wild take to be honest.
  - daeros 3y ago
    Here's a better alternative: If you need an IRCD with such features, UPGRADE IRC. Contribute the code!
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    IRC is fine. Not everything needs to be "modern".
  - DeepYogurt 3y ago
    I agree with the persistence part for sure. Auth I think is debatable on a per community basis, but probably the spec could allow for more than it does. UX though I think is mostly on the client side and for any open spec you're going to have a multitude of clients. Or at least you SHOULD have a multitude of clients least you simply be open in name only.
unstruktured 3y ago
Like matrix/element chat? https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/
- movedx 3y ago
  Matrix is the best option, for sure.
daeros 3y ago
I disagree, people just need to learn to suck it up and learn how the fuck to to use IRC. We HAVE technology can get the job done already. People just h ave to get used to it and start using it.
- lenerdenator 3y ago
  If IRC was usable for most people, Discord would not exist. But it's not.
  - daeros 3y ago
    I beg to differ, most people are whiny spoiled brats who could easily suck it up and learn how to use IRC if they were determined enough to do so, this is not a matter of ability, it's a matter of will.
    - shepherdjerred 3y ago
      You can't just make people do what you want because you think it's better. IRC is unusable to the average person without significant investment whereas Discord is immediately familiar. Discord is more popular than IRC because to most people it's better.
      - daeros 3y ago
        It astonishes me that the prospect of being on a platform where literally you would never have to pay for access to anything that could be digitized again in your entire life is not enough incentive to overcome this reluctance. IRC is the motherload from where all Warez originates. How the fuck is that not enough?
        seanw444 3y ago
        Everthing is a tradeoff between convenience and freedom. Clearly the majority of people have decided convenience beats freedom.

danielheath 3y ago

Mattermost is not hard to host, and it's a damn sight nicer to use these days than discord is. Hard to break the "I don't want to use another new system" barrier though.

zarzavat 3y ago
If you require more than two clicks to create a server then you’re not in the same market as Discord. The point of Discord is that users can make servers instantly. Discord users often make temporary servers to suit a particular need at a particular time when a group of people need to collaborate. Some of these servers become permanent, some die. If there’s any friction to creating a server then it loses the dynamic of how communities start on discord.

DeepYogurt 3y ago

Like IRC?

vsnf 3y ago
Like IRC, but not. Something modern with better authentication, better persistence, and better UX.
- movedx 3y ago
  Better everything: Matrix.
  - gsich 3y ago
    Debatable.
    - thiht 3y ago
      It’s not debatable that Matrix is better than IRC. The IRC clients are mostly bad and ugly, and they don’t even implement basic formatting features (bold, italic) in the same way. NickServ sucks. Having to use bouncers to keep track of history sucks, this only makes it a non suitable choice for a chat platform today. Does IRC even support long messages and multi line messages yet? Oh and btw, net split is not acceptable today.
      - AAAAaccountAAAA 3y ago
        Matrix is not better than IRC. It is in some ways much worse. While I get that IRC has not exactly aged well, Matrix' performance and reliability problems are much worse than the very rare netsplits. IRC sucks, but it can be made more or less tolerable with things like IRCCloud or Lounge (or tmux+weehcat if you happen to prefer something like that), but AFAIK nothing can help with the poor performance and the unreliability of Matrix. While Matrix developers have finally acknowledged the problems, they have run out of venture capital, and have hard time getting any funding to fix the protocol, clients and servers.
      - gsich 3y ago
        It is. They might be ugly, but most are fast. It shouldn't take more than 0.1s to display a new tab or channel.
      - daeros 3y ago
        Hahahaha, the lack of features is a feature. All that shit is bloat, no thank you.
        thiht 3y ago
        Yeah, not having proper nickname ownership beyond the crap NickServ offers is not a feature, it's a gross overlook from a time where we could afford to be naive on the internet. And considering multiline messages as "bloat" is a wild take to be honest.
- daeros 3y ago
  Here's a better alternative: If you need an IRCD with such features, UPGRADE IRC. Contribute the code!
- ryandrake 3y ago
  IRC is fine. Not everything needs to be "modern".
- DeepYogurt 3y ago
  I agree with the persistence part for sure. Auth I think is debatable on a per community basis, but probably the spec could allow for more than it does. UX though I think is mostly on the client side and for any open spec you're going to have a multitude of clients. Or at least you SHOULD have a multitude of clients least you simply be open in name only.

unstruktured 3y ago

Like matrix/element chat? https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/

movedx 3y ago
Matrix is the best option, for sure.

daeros 3y ago

I disagree, people just need to learn to suck it up and learn how the fuck to to use IRC. We HAVE technology can get the job done already. People just h ave to get used to it and start using it.

lenerdenator 3y ago
If IRC was usable for most people, Discord would not exist. But it's not.
- daeros 3y ago
  I beg to differ, most people are whiny spoiled brats who could easily suck it up and learn how to use IRC if they were determined enough to do so, this is not a matter of ability, it's a matter of will.
  - shepherdjerred 3y ago
    You can't just make people do what you want because you think it's better. IRC is unusable to the average person without significant investment whereas Discord is immediately familiar. Discord is more popular than IRC because to most people it's better.
    - daeros 3y ago
      It astonishes me that the prospect of being on a platform where literally you would never have to pay for access to anything that could be digitized again in your entire life is not enough incentive to overcome this reluctance. IRC is the motherload from where all Warez originates. How the fuck is that not enough?
      - seanw444 3y ago
        Everthing is a tradeoff between convenience and freedom. Clearly the majority of people have decided convenience beats freedom.