5 ms·

Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers

87 points by josephcsible 3y ago

musicale 3y ago
I thought it was Sony that had a partnership with Discord... > But it’s possible that people were sharing Nintendo’s cryptographic keys, firmware, or even entire pirated games in these servers despite those commitments. At the end of the day, most people seeking out a Nintendo Switch emulator are looking to play Nintendo games on it. Emulators are legal, but running unlicensed games is usually the killer app, especially for more recent consoles. But is sharing cryptographic keys illegal, especially if they are widely known already and are no longer "secret?"
- shmerl 3y ago
  Copyright maximalists managed to circumvent the law by inventing a generic "law" that allows them to ban legal things. I.e. DMCA 1201. As long as they claim it's "circumventing protection measures" they can claim it doesn't matter that it's not infringing anything - it's still forbidden. That's why this garbage "law" should be complete repealed.
  - musicale 3y ago
    Is it established that numbers are a circumvention technology or tool banned by 1201?
    - shmerl 3y ago
      They can easily claim that. Since keys are numbers anyway. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag But as easily as they can claim it, as easily it can be defeated if everyone massively ignores it and shares it everywhere, which can highlight absurdity and stupidity of this "law".
  - ensignavenger 3y ago
    It should be stricken down as unconstitutional as it violates the 1st Amendment.
shmerl 3y ago
Willing servants of their censorship overlords.
- musicale 3y ago
  Discord or the judge who wrote the court order?
  - lrvick 3y ago
    Both.
dmitrygr 3y ago
Well, that just about wraps up Discord’s “not evil” era.
- musicale 3y ago
  What's the best way to ignore a court order without incurring some sort of penalty?
- willmadden 3y ago
  Oh, it was wrapped up years ago.
- dancemethis 3y ago
  As OpenFeint with another coat of paint and selling more user data and metadata than ever, it never was not evil.
- gsich 3y ago
  They were always evil, look at the data collection.
blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
We need better open source and decentralized technologies that cannot be blocked in this manner. The walled garden model, which Discord also uses, is always going to be susceptible to this type of takedown. Expect more of this as they gear up to go public, in a bid to look “legitimate” just like Reddit.
- danielheath 3y ago
  Mattermost is not hard to host, and it's a damn sight nicer to use these days than discord is. Hard to break the "I don't want to use another new system" barrier though.
  - zarzavat 3y ago
    If you require more than two clicks to create a server then you’re not in the same market as Discord. The point of Discord is that users can make servers instantly. Discord users often make temporary servers to suit a particular need at a particular time when a group of people need to collaborate. Some of these servers become permanent, some die. If there’s any friction to creating a server then it loses the dynamic of how communities start on discord.
- DeepYogurt 3y ago
  Like IRC?
  - vsnf 3y ago
    Like IRC, but not. Something modern with better authentication, better persistence, and better UX.
    - movedx 3y ago
      Better everything: Matrix.
      - gsich 3y ago
lrvick 3y ago
Centralizing communications in the servers of a proprietary for-profit entity will end in unfair censorship every single time. If you advertise your community on Discord, especially if you are working on something open source, you are part of the problem. Use Matrix, Jabber, or even IRC before giving companies like Discord money. The cute icons are not worth it.
- idle_zealot 3y ago
  It's not about the cute icons. It's about meeting users where they are. Discord is popular, and users are reticent to migrate or begin using other community-hosting software. That's not to say that I'm against using Free community software, quite the opposite, but the problem is real; if you exclusively host your own Matrix community you will have less participation than if you make a Discord space. That is simply the state of things. I don't know how we get to a better state here, but I'd love to hear ideas. Perhaps just boycotting Discord and encouraging other FOSS projects to do the same could eventually turn the tide?
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    Matrix needs to improve the UX a lot. I’m a big supporter and I’ve donated a ton in the past, but I just don’t use it anymore because it mostly doesn’t work properly and a ton of features technically exist but are so painful to use that they may as well not.
    - abnercoimbre 3y ago
      Yeah I've been using them for my indie conferences since 2020. I recently argued [0] that it's not the Year for Matrix, even if Discord now has ads and is doing sketchy stuff typical of enshitification. Unfortunately I just don't see Matrix's priorities going towards UX. I'm dropping them. Revolt has promise [1], at the very least as a stopgap. [0] https://youtu.be/WxAO4xDPpkg https://youtu.be/WxAO4xDPpkg [1] https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat
      - 3y ago
movedx 3y ago
Time to move to Matrix.
daeros 3y ago
Back to Internet relay chat. Hell, if you find its interface "Too clunky" and it feels like last century and for terminal nerds that never adapted to modern GUIs them use IRC cloud. IRC isn't dead by a long shot, Yes, People still use it, Daily. Traffic is down overall, but it remains a thing along with the XDCC bots "The warez scene" and all. It's the same as it's always been. There are networks more than happy to host such channels, I remember one IRCop on IRC repeatedly directing me to upload files to FTP Servers that were Bots on Rizon. Either blissfully unaware of these machines being compromised and hacked or knowing and complicit, either way. He had me initiated into the whole FXP couriering culture for a while. Such Networks would ethuasistatically welcome Suzu and others.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nl 3y ago
Pretty important quote here: > "In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order"
pogue 3y ago
Good time to remind everyone that an open source E2EE decentralized alternative exists for Discord in the form of https://revolt.chat/ https://revolt.chat/
daeros 3y ago
I'm just going to say it, at this point given the way these talks have gone, but Discord is a vague amorphous blob of binary code that cannot be meaningfully forked to strip out and remove unwanted functionality should the end user not share the preferences of those who populate its servers, the appeal of something like IRC being based on extensions that can be added or removed at will at the IRCD level is that in essence, It's left up to the admins to pick and choose what features their users get access to. If you don't like this, you can always create your own IRCD and configure it differently. The frustration as a Gentooist that I feel towards Discord could be summarized as That's nice that people prefer things like code snippets and the photos displaying by default but if I did not share these people's preferences I would have no means of actually stripping out this unwanted functionality from it, which is also as it turns out the appeal for me of compiling my own binaries in that GCC can be configured in such a manner that functions that you lack the hardware to support or simply realize you will never actually use can literally be stripped out of the resulting binaries, but with Discords closed source Proprietary nature if these end users had radically different preferences than I did I would not be able to meaningful with their platform opt out of being dragged along into implementing features I actually didn't want, simply because they increased the resource drain and load on my system. These kinds of things make loathe closed source for the simple fact that with a black box you are left in a situation where, like I said, if most of the users want a feature, but you don't because it would be too demanding on your computer, you're fucked. You cannot meaningful opt out of it being implemented we can't, you know, fork a discord lite. Because of how this works.
- daeros 3y ago
  Based on should be, that IRC can be extended, if users want to. They can have the features they want, but with discord, if I don't, I'm just along for the ride they provide.
daeros 3y ago
Like yeah, they're right there is no bolding and italics on IRC, that's part of why it is great.
- crtasm 3y ago
  I see bold text on IRC every day, maybe you've changed a mode.

87 points by josephcsible 3y ago

I thought it was Sony that had a partnership with Discord... > But it’s possible that people were sharing Nintendo’s cryptographic keys, firmware, or even entire pirated games in these servers despite those commitments. At the end of the day, most people seeking out a Nintendo Switch emulator are looking to play Nintendo games on it. Emulators are legal, but running unlicensed games is usually the killer app, especially for more recent consoles. But is sharing cryptographic keys illegal, especially if they are widely known already and are no longer "secret?"

shmerl 3y ago
Copyright maximalists managed to circumvent the law by inventing a generic "law" that allows them to ban legal things. I.e. DMCA 1201. As long as they claim it's "circumventing protection measures" they can claim it doesn't matter that it's not infringing anything - it's still forbidden. That's why this garbage "law" should be complete repealed.
- musicale 3y ago
  Is it established that numbers are a circumvention technology or tool banned by 1201?
  - shmerl 3y ago
    They can easily claim that. Since keys are numbers anyway. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag But as easily as they can claim it, as easily it can be defeated if everyone massively ignores it and shares it everywhere, which can highlight absurdity and stupidity of this "law".
- ensignavenger 3y ago
  It should be stricken down as unconstitutional as it violates the 1st Amendment.

shmerl 3y ago

Willing servants of their censorship overlords.

musicale 3y ago
Discord or the judge who wrote the court order?
- lrvick 3y ago
  Both.

dmitrygr 3y ago

Well, that just about wraps up Discord’s “not evil” era.

musicale 3y ago
What's the best way to ignore a court order without incurring some sort of penalty?
willmadden 3y ago
Oh, it was wrapped up years ago.
dancemethis 3y ago
As OpenFeint with another coat of paint and selling more user data and metadata than ever, it never was not evil.
gsich 3y ago
They were always evil, look at the data collection.

blackeyeblitzar 3y ago

We need better open source and decentralized technologies that cannot be blocked in this manner. The walled garden model, which Discord also uses, is always going to be susceptible to this type of takedown. Expect more of this as they gear up to go public, in a bid to look “legitimate” just like Reddit.

danielheath 3y ago
Mattermost is not hard to host, and it's a damn sight nicer to use these days than discord is. Hard to break the "I don't want to use another new system" barrier though.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  If you require more than two clicks to create a server then you’re not in the same market as Discord. The point of Discord is that users can make servers instantly. Discord users often make temporary servers to suit a particular need at a particular time when a group of people need to collaborate. Some of these servers become permanent, some die. If there’s any friction to creating a server then it loses the dynamic of how communities start on discord.
DeepYogurt 3y ago
Like IRC?
- vsnf 3y ago
  Like IRC, but not. Something modern with better authentication, better persistence, and better UX.
  - movedx 3y ago
    Better everything: Matrix.
    - gsich 3y ago

lrvick 3y ago

Centralizing communications in the servers of a proprietary for-profit entity will end in unfair censorship every single time. If you advertise your community on Discord, especially if you are working on something open source, you are part of the problem. Use Matrix, Jabber, or even IRC before giving companies like Discord money. The cute icons are not worth it.

idle_zealot 3y ago
It's not about the cute icons. It's about meeting users where they are. Discord is popular, and users are reticent to migrate or begin using other community-hosting software. That's not to say that I'm against using Free community software, quite the opposite, but the problem is real; if you exclusively host your own Matrix community you will have less participation than if you make a Discord space. That is simply the state of things. I don't know how we get to a better state here, but I'd love to hear ideas. Perhaps just boycotting Discord and encouraging other FOSS projects to do the same could eventually turn the tide?
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Matrix needs to improve the UX a lot. I’m a big supporter and I’ve donated a ton in the past, but I just don’t use it anymore because it mostly doesn’t work properly and a ton of features technically exist but are so painful to use that they may as well not.
  - abnercoimbre 3y ago
    Yeah I've been using them for my indie conferences since 2020. I recently argued [0] that it's not the Year for Matrix, even if Discord now has ads and is doing sketchy stuff typical of enshitification. Unfortunately I just don't see Matrix's priorities going towards UX. I'm dropping them. Revolt has promise [1], at the very least as a stopgap. [0] https://youtu.be/WxAO4xDPpkg https://youtu.be/WxAO4xDPpkg [1] https://revolt.chat https://revolt.chat
    - 3y ago

movedx 3y ago

Time to move to Matrix.

daeros 3y ago

Back to Internet relay chat. Hell, if you find its interface "Too clunky" and it feels like last century and for terminal nerds that never adapted to modern GUIs them use IRC cloud. IRC isn't dead by a long shot, Yes, People still use it, Daily. Traffic is down overall, but it remains a thing along with the XDCC bots "The warez scene" and all. It's the same as it's always been. There are networks more than happy to host such channels, I remember one IRCop on IRC repeatedly directing me to upload files to FTP Servers that were Bots on Rizon. Either blissfully unaware of these machines being compromised and hacked or knowing and complicit, either way. He had me initiated into the whole FXP couriering culture for a while. Such Networks would ethuasistatically welcome Suzu and others.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nl 3y ago

Pretty important quote here: > "In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order"

pogue 3y ago

Good time to remind everyone that an open source E2EE decentralized alternative exists for Discord in the form of https://revolt.chat/ https://revolt.chat/

daeros 3y ago

I'm just going to say it, at this point given the way these talks have gone, but Discord is a vague amorphous blob of binary code that cannot be meaningfully forked to strip out and remove unwanted functionality should the end user not share the preferences of those who populate its servers, the appeal of something like IRC being based on extensions that can be added or removed at will at the IRCD level is that in essence, It's left up to the admins to pick and choose what features their users get access to. If you don't like this, you can always create your own IRCD and configure it differently. The frustration as a Gentooist that I feel towards Discord could be summarized as That's nice that people prefer things like code snippets and the photos displaying by default but if I did not share these people's preferences I would have no means of actually stripping out this unwanted functionality from it, which is also as it turns out the appeal for me of compiling my own binaries in that GCC can be configured in such a manner that functions that you lack the hardware to support or simply realize you will never actually use can literally be stripped out of the resulting binaries, but with Discords closed source Proprietary nature if these end users had radically different preferences than I did I would not be able to meaningful with their platform opt out of being dragged along into implementing features I actually didn't want, simply because they increased the resource drain and load on my system. These kinds of things make loathe closed source for the simple fact that with a black box you are left in a situation where, like I said, if most of the users want a feature, but you don't because it would be too demanding on your computer, you're fucked. You cannot meaningful opt out of it being implemented we can't, you know, fork a discord lite. Because of how this works.

daeros 3y ago
Based on should be, that IRC can be extended, if users want to. They can have the features they want, but with discord, if I don't, I'm just along for the ride they provide.

daeros 3y ago

Like yeah, they're right there is no bolding and italics on IRC, that's part of why it is great.

crtasm 3y ago
I see bold text on IRC every day, maybe you've changed a mode.