4 ms·

Is there any E2EE messaging service, or network protocol of any sort, that doesn't suffer from this? If an endpoint is compromised in whatever way, it doesn't m

Is there any E2EE messaging service, or network protocol of any sort, that doesn't suffer from this? If an endpoint is compromised in whatever way, it doesn't matter how encrypted the data is in transit.

sneak 2y ago
Signal doesn’t have this problem. By your terminology, all iOS devices are “compromised” by default from having non-e2ee iCloud Backup enabled by default. Signal chats on iOS are stored in a storage class that cannot be backed up or exported from the device.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Which is, of course, often not what users actually want.
  - sneak 2y ago
    Users want their messages and iMessaged nudes to be private from Apple and warrantless FBI snooping. Presently, they aren’t.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Pretty sure Apple requires a warrant to decrypt those.
      - sneak 2y ago
        You are incorrect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM From the front page of the Times today, they are renewing the law that says they have to do it without a warrant (FISA Section 702, aka PRISM). https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/us/politics/surveillance-bill-fisa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/us/politics/surveillance-... You’ll note that this is regularly and frequently used by the FBI against domestic users (such as BLM protesters). Apple processes these FISA demands on over 70,000 user accounts every year, and the number is increasing. (That’s just the count for the warrantless FISA stuff - search warrants are a different (larger) figure.) They also expanded it to allow them to search Apple’s data on people entering the US as visitors. > The House also passed several other significant amendments. They included allowing the Section 702 program to be used to gather intelligence on foreign narcotics trafficking organizations and to vet potential foreign visitors to the United States; empowering certain congressional leaders to observe classified hearings before a court that oversees national-security surveillance; and expanding the types of companies with access to foreign communications that can be required to participate in the program.

sneak 2y ago

Signal doesn’t have this problem. By your terminology, all iOS devices are “compromised” by default from having non-e2ee iCloud Backup enabled by default. Signal chats on iOS are stored in a storage class that cannot be backed up or exported from the device.

saagarjha 2y ago
Which is, of course, often not what users actually want.
- sneak 2y ago
  Users want their messages and iMessaged nudes to be private from Apple and warrantless FBI snooping. Presently, they aren’t.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Pretty sure Apple requires a warrant to decrypt those.
    - sneak 2y ago
      You are incorrect. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM From the front page of the Times today, they are renewing the law that says they have to do it without a warrant (FISA Section 702, aka PRISM). https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/us/politics/surveillance-bill-fisa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/us/politics/surveillance-... You’ll note that this is regularly and frequently used by the FBI against domestic users (such as BLM protesters). Apple processes these FISA demands on over 70,000 user accounts every year, and the number is increasing. (That’s just the count for the warrantless FISA stuff - search warrants are a different (larger) figure.) They also expanded it to allow them to search Apple’s data on people entering the US as visitors. > The House also passed several other significant amendments. They included allowing the Section 702 program to be used to gather intelligence on foreign narcotics trafficking organizations and to vet potential foreign visitors to the United States; empowering certain congressional leaders to observe classified hearings before a court that oversees national-security surveillance; and expanding the types of companies with access to foreign communications that can be required to participate in the program.