8 ms·

> most deadlines were entirely arbitrary Yes. As are most tasks, in my experience. Looking back on your almost 30 years, what percent of tasks could have been

by makk 3y ago

> most deadlines were entirely arbitrary Yes. As are most tasks, in my experience. Looking back on your almost 30 years, what percent of tasks could have been skipped entirely and, in the long run, it wouldn't have mattered? For me, it's easily >50% ... catch me on a grumpy day and I'd say it's closer to 90%.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Honestly, most companies and projects fail completely. In my 25ish year career I can only think of a handful of lines of code that I've written that are still in production (or that I think might still be in production) and only a few employers that still exist. When you pan out far enough it all seems a bit silly.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Depends where you work. Code I wrote for the government may live on for far too long…
- jahewson 3y ago
  But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
  - kunley 2y ago
    Pleasing shareholders is overrated
- strken 3y ago
  I think this is confusing code with output. If you work for a company that builds medical software, then your output is something like quality-adjusted life years for patients and has nothing to do with the code you incidentally use to get there. Taking the view that none of the software you wrote is still running is a bit like an automotive engineer who thinks none of the car models she worked on at the start of her career are still in production. Well, no, they're not: but does that matter? Millions of kids got driven to school by cars she helped design.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    Even if you measure that way... again... most software industry businesses fail/disappear from the market. Outside of the largest companies, their business solutions tend to be transient.
    - strken 3y ago
      I agree, but that's the human condition, not some software industry peculiarity. As per Shelley: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  Why is that an appropriate measure? Are chefs sad that none of the meals they created are still around?
  - NortySpock 3y ago
    Does an empathetic doctor not smile when they see their patients in good health? Does a lawyer not take pride in a well-written contract that shielded their company when the client turned adversarial? Does a former mayor not visit the parks they opened, the civil works projects that they helped organize or brokered deals for? Does a salesman not remember their biggest sale? Their wildest outing? Their most critical conversation where they saved (or lost) a deal? Does a restaurant manager not eventually sit down in a quiet corner of the restaurant, eat a meal in peace, and enjoy the background murmur of their patrons? Does an electrical engineer not smile when they drive by a substation they helped design? Does a teacher not remember their most successful students? Does a parent not remember their children? Why would a software developer not want to know how long their projects lasted? Why would they not measure their impact in terms of messages sent, or mean-time-between-failure, or ROI / cost-to-benefit ratio, or smiles-per-hour? I'm not saying every line of code I write was one I was proud of, but I have dug into thorny problems, crafted solutions that were good enough, and been happy to see the code stay in service with only a very light touch needed to keep it on track. Of that, I am proud.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      >Why would a software developer not want to know how long their projects lasted? But the software is a tool used by customers to do the actual equivalents of the things you listed. As you said for the lawyer: They're happy the the contract fulfilled its purpose, not that it's still sitting on a shelf somewhere.
gavmor 3y ago
Sure, but that inertia carries you over the myriad alignment traps strewn like potholes over the face of your production–possibility frontier.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  If anything that's overstating the prospects of the median person in software engineering. Probably even the 99th percentile HN user couldn't do anything lasting and noteworthy if they somehow were blocked from relying on inertia, sheer dumb luck, obscure chains of fortuitous happenstance, etc... e.g. probably no one reading this can even hold the full Bluetooth spec in their head and understand all the tricks and pitfalls and obscure corner cases. Let alone do any useful work based on that. For the vast vast majority, progress happens in the form of millions of monkeys bashing typewriters in the hopes of getting a gem.

by makk 3y ago

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Honestly, most companies and projects fail completely. In my 25ish year career I can only think of a handful of lines of code that I've written that are still in production (or that I think might still be in production) and only a few employers that still exist. When you pan out far enough it all seems a bit silly.

teaearlgraycold 3y ago
Depends where you work. Code I wrote for the government may live on for far too long…
jahewson 3y ago
But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
- kunley 2y ago
  Pleasing shareholders is overrated
strken 3y ago
I think this is confusing code with output. If you work for a company that builds medical software, then your output is something like quality-adjusted life years for patients and has nothing to do with the code you incidentally use to get there. Taking the view that none of the software you wrote is still running is a bit like an automotive engineer who thinks none of the car models she worked on at the start of her career are still in production. Well, no, they're not: but does that matter? Millions of kids got driven to school by cars she helped design.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Even if you measure that way... again... most software industry businesses fail/disappear from the market. Outside of the largest companies, their business solutions tend to be transient.
  - strken 3y ago
    I agree, but that's the human condition, not some software industry peculiarity. As per Shelley: Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Why is that an appropriate measure? Are chefs sad that none of the meals they created are still around?
- NortySpock 3y ago
  Does an empathetic doctor not smile when they see their patients in good health? Does a lawyer not take pride in a well-written contract that shielded their company when the client turned adversarial? Does a former mayor not visit the parks they opened, the civil works projects that they helped organize or brokered deals for? Does a salesman not remember their biggest sale? Their wildest outing? Their most critical conversation where they saved (or lost) a deal? Does a restaurant manager not eventually sit down in a quiet corner of the restaurant, eat a meal in peace, and enjoy the background murmur of their patrons? Does an electrical engineer not smile when they drive by a substation they helped design? Does a teacher not remember their most successful students? Does a parent not remember their children? Why would a software developer not want to know how long their projects lasted? Why would they not measure their impact in terms of messages sent, or mean-time-between-failure, or ROI / cost-to-benefit ratio, or smiles-per-hour? I'm not saying every line of code I write was one I was proud of, but I have dug into thorny problems, crafted solutions that were good enough, and been happy to see the code stay in service with only a very light touch needed to keep it on track. Of that, I am proud.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >Why would a software developer not want to know how long their projects lasted? But the software is a tool used by customers to do the actual equivalents of the things you listed. As you said for the lawyer: They're happy the the contract fulfilled its purpose, not that it's still sitting on a shelf somewhere.

gavmor 3y ago

Sure, but that inertia carries you over the myriad alignment traps strewn like potholes over the face of your production–possibility frontier.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
If anything that's overstating the prospects of the median person in software engineering. Probably even the 99th percentile HN user couldn't do anything lasting and noteworthy if they somehow were blocked from relying on inertia, sheer dumb luck, obscure chains of fortuitous happenstance, etc... e.g. probably no one reading this can even hold the full Bluetooth spec in their head and understand all the tricks and pitfalls and obscure corner cases. Let alone do any useful work based on that. For the vast vast majority, progress happens in the form of millions of monkeys bashing typewriters in the hopes of getting a gem.