5 ms·

How can Pegasus and NSO still be allowed to exist? I know they are an Israeli corporation, but even then has there been action against them from the Israeli gov

How can Pegasus and NSO still be allowed to exist? I know they are an Israeli corporation, but even then has there been action against them from the Israeli government? This is basically rogue state behavior

r00fus 3y ago
[flagged]
- EasyMark 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - r00fus 3y ago
    Yeah the issue with "Netanyahu is the problem" is that most of the Knesset is full of even worse folks. And the Israelis who elect them. The country is drunk with US money and arms and hasn't had to really consider rational approaches to anything since big daddy US always funds them regardless of their actions.
  - TheGuyWhoCodes 3y ago
    The only one stirring up a regional war is Iran, arming terrorist groups around Israel as a proxy war. The fact they can act with impunity is a stain on the west just like the war in Ukraine that still rages on. This might not have been a bin laden level assassination but it was not that far and any other country that faces the same threat would do the same.
    - 616c 3y ago
      There is always someone on each of N sides of these longstanding conflicts in the region saying "Y is really the problem (because I support X; all who support X know Y is the real problem)." That foreign powers abuse that to their own advantage worse than even the local factions do is the true stain on humanity. Why support this?
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Israel has literally targeted Iranian territory. How is that better than arming Israel's opponents? And Israel is the country with not only a nuclear capability but also invented the "samson option", which is basically threatening the region to nuke everyone if they have to. Israel and Iran really deserve each other.
      - TheGuyWhoCodes 3y ago
        If you mean the "embassy" building it's not Iranian territory. They are not defined as such, it's false information from movies and did you forget the bombing of the Israeli embassy in Argentina? They sure didn't have an issue then. If you mean assassinations of nuclear scientists in Iran then sure you are correct but then what do you expect when Iran's leaders again and again say they are going to wipe Israel off the map? "How is that better than arming Israel's opponents?" - Got me there buddy, how is it better than targeting military targets who fund and direct terror vs aiming blindly 100k rockets into population centers.. gee they are so equivalent When all your neighbors wants to murder you and throw you to the sea you tend to be a bit overly defensive, why is it any different than the US/Russia/China nuclear arsenal as a deterrent?
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        The difference is that China or Russia or the US have a mutual destruction doctrine. Russia or the US won't nuke every country on earth that they can reach if they get nuked by China for example. According to that logic since Israel clearly wants to destroy Iran, it should be able to nuke Israel as a last act even if Israel didn't initiate a nuclear attack. As to your first point, I'm talking about decades of Israeli operations, not just what happened recently. But I guess Israeli embassies are ok to attack now, since they aren't in Israeli territory. You keep saying that they are just trying to not get wiped out, but they are the only people that are actively and openly wiping out another group. Like, multiple Israeli officials have stated they want to level Gaza to the ground. Is the Westbank colonization also just a way for poor Israelis to not get wiped by neighbors or? They also killed more than 30 000 civilians in the past few months. So the narrative that they are just trying to not get pushed back to the sea doesn't work very well here. Especially coming from a colonizing state that is actively expanding in territory that isn't theirs the moment that said territory stopped armed combat against them.
tptacek 3y ago
There are plenty of companies like these that you haven't heard of. I don't think Israel has much to do with the situation.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  But that's the thing. This is basically public knowledge at this point. I realize that almost every regional or super power has or tries to have this type of corporation for their own usage, but in this case it's public knowledge and it also openly targets Israel's allies. A good example is how France's president was targeted. I'm not sure the US wouldn't at least pretend to shut down/restrain a corporation that's helping Israel's ennemies spy on Netanyahu for example.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    Why do you think that? What's the precedent?
CPLX 3y ago
Your theory is that the Israeli government doesn’t approve of what they are doing?
thebytefairy 3y ago
PBS Frontline has a good documentary on the NSO Group. They are sanctioned by the government, and even used as political leverage - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVj1_SE4Mo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVj1_SE4Mo
runeks 3y ago
> How can Pegasus and NSO still be allowed to exist? Because the entities that have the power to outlaw them are their biggest customers.

r00fus 3y ago

[flagged]

EasyMark 3y ago
[flagged]
- r00fus 3y ago
  Yeah the issue with "Netanyahu is the problem" is that most of the Knesset is full of even worse folks. And the Israelis who elect them. The country is drunk with US money and arms and hasn't had to really consider rational approaches to anything since big daddy US always funds them regardless of their actions.
- TheGuyWhoCodes 3y ago
  The only one stirring up a regional war is Iran, arming terrorist groups around Israel as a proxy war. The fact they can act with impunity is a stain on the west just like the war in Ukraine that still rages on. This might not have been a bin laden level assassination but it was not that far and any other country that faces the same threat would do the same.
  - 616c 3y ago
    There is always someone on each of N sides of these longstanding conflicts in the region saying "Y is really the problem (because I support X; all who support X know Y is the real problem)." That foreign powers abuse that to their own advantage worse than even the local factions do is the true stain on humanity. Why support this?
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Israel has literally targeted Iranian territory. How is that better than arming Israel's opponents? And Israel is the country with not only a nuclear capability but also invented the "samson option", which is basically threatening the region to nuke everyone if they have to. Israel and Iran really deserve each other.
    - TheGuyWhoCodes 3y ago
      If you mean the "embassy" building it's not Iranian territory. They are not defined as such, it's false information from movies and did you forget the bombing of the Israeli embassy in Argentina? They sure didn't have an issue then. If you mean assassinations of nuclear scientists in Iran then sure you are correct but then what do you expect when Iran's leaders again and again say they are going to wipe Israel off the map? "How is that better than arming Israel's opponents?" - Got me there buddy, how is it better than targeting military targets who fund and direct terror vs aiming blindly 100k rockets into population centers.. gee they are so equivalent When all your neighbors wants to murder you and throw you to the sea you tend to be a bit overly defensive, why is it any different than the US/Russia/China nuclear arsenal as a deterrent?
      - mardifoufs 3y ago
        The difference is that China or Russia or the US have a mutual destruction doctrine. Russia or the US won't nuke every country on earth that they can reach if they get nuked by China for example. According to that logic since Israel clearly wants to destroy Iran, it should be able to nuke Israel as a last act even if Israel didn't initiate a nuclear attack. As to your first point, I'm talking about decades of Israeli operations, not just what happened recently. But I guess Israeli embassies are ok to attack now, since they aren't in Israeli territory. You keep saying that they are just trying to not get wiped out, but they are the only people that are actively and openly wiping out another group. Like, multiple Israeli officials have stated they want to level Gaza to the ground. Is the Westbank colonization also just a way for poor Israelis to not get wiped by neighbors or? They also killed more than 30 000 civilians in the past few months. So the narrative that they are just trying to not get pushed back to the sea doesn't work very well here. Especially coming from a colonizing state that is actively expanding in territory that isn't theirs the moment that said territory stopped armed combat against them.

tptacek 3y ago

There are plenty of companies like these that you haven't heard of. I don't think Israel has much to do with the situation.

mardifoufs 3y ago
But that's the thing. This is basically public knowledge at this point. I realize that almost every regional or super power has or tries to have this type of corporation for their own usage, but in this case it's public knowledge and it also openly targets Israel's allies. A good example is how France's president was targeted. I'm not sure the US wouldn't at least pretend to shut down/restrain a corporation that's helping Israel's ennemies spy on Netanyahu for example.
- tptacek 3y ago
  Why do you think that? What's the precedent?

CPLX 3y ago

Your theory is that the Israeli government doesn’t approve of what they are doing?

thebytefairy 3y ago

PBS Frontline has a good documentary on the NSO Group. They are sanctioned by the government, and even used as political leverage - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVj1_SE4Mo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVj1_SE4Mo

runeks 3y ago

> How can Pegasus and NSO still be allowed to exist? Because the entities that have the power to outlaw them are their biggest customers.