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David Lynch's oeuvre, while unquestionably idiosyncratic, is also characterized and widely criticized for its obvious compromises. Kubrick puts the art above th

David Lynch's oeuvre, while unquestionably idiosyncratic, is also characterized and widely criticized for its obvious compromises. Kubrick puts the art above the artists, it's the only way

Chabsff 3y ago
It's not, in fact, the only way. The alternatives are time and/or money. Not having access to the resources needed to accomplish something is not a license to resort to socially unacceptable means. Now, there's an argument to be made that actors who accepted to work under Kubrick knew (or at least ought to have known) what they were getting into, which blurs things a lot in this specific case. But "It's the only way" is going too far imo.
- geodel 3y ago
  > But "It's the only way" is going too far imo. Its going too far if industry is replete with Kubrick level work with above reproach behavior. Else I can just choose to not watch Kubrick films while stewing in my own moral superiority.
seanc 3y ago
Denis Villeneuve is another example of a universally loved director, and he is not often criticized for obvious compromises. Villeneuve's good friend Christopher Nolan presents as a bit more of a prickly pear, but he has a very long list of long-time collaborators on both sides of the camera so he's probably not that bad. In fact, more than a few of those behind-the-scenes folks collaborate with both Villeneuve and Nolan. It would be interesting to hear them compare an contrast.
- hammock 3y ago
  Not sure I'm following on Denis, his most loved movies are all remakes of singular masterpieces (Dune, Sicario, Blade Runner)
  - pja 3y ago
    Sicario was an original screenplay by Taylor Sheridan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicario_%282015_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicario_%282015_film. Calling the other two "remakes" seems unnecessarily reductive imo.
  - feoren 3y ago
    You conveniently left out Arrival. Also, Blade Runner 2049 was not a remake, but a sequel with original content. Also, Dune was a book adaptation, not a remake. Also, that's just a weird reason to reject a director. Is it easier to direct a movie that's set in an existing universe? Should we reject all World War 2 movies as potential masterpieces since they're just remakes of a thing that happened?
    - mattbuilds 3y ago
      Just to further your point, we are in a thread about Kubrick who did numerous book adaptations including Lolita, Dr. Strangelove, The Shining, and Clockwork Orange and this is just off the top of my head. Tons of directors adapt novels. Bringing the story to the screen is the skill.
      - phinnaeus 3y ago
        As an aside, 2001 is an interesting case as it was produced concurrently with the novel. It's clearly not an adaptation, but I wouldn't say it's clearly original material either.
  - jajko 3y ago
    Please don't troll here, its not well received (and shouldn't be)
  - jjulius 3y ago
    The point isn't really the films that they've made, but the experiences others have had underneath those directors when making them.
- martin_balsam 3y ago
  Chris Nolan famously drives all his production designers insane! No one has made more then one film with him. Apparently he also only shoots 3 or 4 takes per shot, and goes ballistic if somethings goes wrong.
- echelon 3y ago
  Dune took "Show Don't Tell" the the utmost extreme that it practically inverted upon itself. There's no character development to speak of, the plot is secondary, and visual spectacle is placed front and center. I tire of movies with lazy expositional dialogue, but this was absurd in the other direction.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    I loved every second of it. It was so refreshing. I guess what’s great for both of us is that there’s just so many movies these days.
    - echelon 3y ago
      > I guess what’s great for both of us is that there’s just so many movies these days I vehemently disagree, and I'm not simply being argumentative -- this is something I've held as a strong opinion for decades. I can count on my hand the number of high fantasy series that have been filmed and that have been good. Or the number of spacefaring sci-fi films. I've seen thousands of movies, yet I'd consider fewer than 10% of them "good". Very few sit with me for days after the theater. This world doesn't have enough film. I know my interests aren't being catered to.
      - nwienert 3y ago
        You're lucky, I find something like <2% enjoyable to actually give real attention to. For that reason I watch basically 0 TV or movies anymore. And feels like the less I watch, the less I can watch anything without immediately being annoyed at cheese, cheapness, and mostly just plain unrealistic characters or dialogue (which really and truly is 99% it seems like of shows). I need either high art or a slice of life. Ghibli or Satoshi Kon for anime, stuff like Kubrick in film, or Mad Men for TV. Mad Men especially was my turning point where after that show I couldn't stomach much else. Call me elitist. I watch lower quality YouTube stuff much more easily (at low attention), but once you're trying to sign me up for 30 minutes or more I just give up. Tried watching the 3 Body Problem on Netflix and in just the first scenes (cultural revolution + the scientists convo on God) were so full of cringe. I kept it on as background a bit but petered out after a few episodes.
- napierzaza 3y ago
  [dead]
Waterluvian 3y ago
It’s an excuse for those who can’t achieve greatness while being great.

David Lynch's oeuvre, while unquestionably idiosyncratic, is also characterized and widely criticized for its obvious compromises. Kubrick puts the art above the artists, it's the only way

Chabsff 3y ago

It's not, in fact, the only way. The alternatives are time and/or money. Not having access to the resources needed to accomplish something is not a license to resort to socially unacceptable means. Now, there's an argument to be made that actors who accepted to work under Kubrick knew (or at least ought to have known) what they were getting into, which blurs things a lot in this specific case. But "It's the only way" is going too far imo.

geodel 3y ago
> But "It's the only way" is going too far imo. Its going too far if industry is replete with Kubrick level work with above reproach behavior. Else I can just choose to not watch Kubrick films while stewing in my own moral superiority.

seanc 3y ago

Denis Villeneuve is another example of a universally loved director, and he is not often criticized for obvious compromises. Villeneuve's good friend Christopher Nolan presents as a bit more of a prickly pear, but he has a very long list of long-time collaborators on both sides of the camera so he's probably not that bad. In fact, more than a few of those behind-the-scenes folks collaborate with both Villeneuve and Nolan. It would be interesting to hear them compare an contrast.

hammock 3y ago
Not sure I'm following on Denis, his most loved movies are all remakes of singular masterpieces (Dune, Sicario, Blade Runner)
- pja 3y ago
  Sicario was an original screenplay by Taylor Sheridan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicario_%282015_film https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicario_%282015_film. Calling the other two "remakes" seems unnecessarily reductive imo.
- feoren 3y ago
  You conveniently left out Arrival. Also, Blade Runner 2049 was not a remake, but a sequel with original content. Also, Dune was a book adaptation, not a remake. Also, that's just a weird reason to reject a director. Is it easier to direct a movie that's set in an existing universe? Should we reject all World War 2 movies as potential masterpieces since they're just remakes of a thing that happened?
  - mattbuilds 3y ago
    Just to further your point, we are in a thread about Kubrick who did numerous book adaptations including Lolita, Dr. Strangelove, The Shining, and Clockwork Orange and this is just off the top of my head. Tons of directors adapt novels. Bringing the story to the screen is the skill.
    - phinnaeus 3y ago
      As an aside, 2001 is an interesting case as it was produced concurrently with the novel. It's clearly not an adaptation, but I wouldn't say it's clearly original material either.
- jajko 3y ago
  Please don't troll here, its not well received (and shouldn't be)
- jjulius 3y ago
  The point isn't really the films that they've made, but the experiences others have had underneath those directors when making them.
martin_balsam 3y ago
Chris Nolan famously drives all his production designers insane! No one has made more then one film with him. Apparently he also only shoots 3 or 4 takes per shot, and goes ballistic if somethings goes wrong.
echelon 3y ago
Dune took "Show Don't Tell" the the utmost extreme that it practically inverted upon itself. There's no character development to speak of, the plot is secondary, and visual spectacle is placed front and center. I tire of movies with lazy expositional dialogue, but this was absurd in the other direction.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  I loved every second of it. It was so refreshing. I guess what’s great for both of us is that there’s just so many movies these days.
  - echelon 3y ago
    > I guess what’s great for both of us is that there’s just so many movies these days I vehemently disagree, and I'm not simply being argumentative -- this is something I've held as a strong opinion for decades. I can count on my hand the number of high fantasy series that have been filmed and that have been good. Or the number of spacefaring sci-fi films. I've seen thousands of movies, yet I'd consider fewer than 10% of them "good". Very few sit with me for days after the theater. This world doesn't have enough film. I know my interests aren't being catered to.
    - nwienert 3y ago
      You're lucky, I find something like <2% enjoyable to actually give real attention to. For that reason I watch basically 0 TV or movies anymore. And feels like the less I watch, the less I can watch anything without immediately being annoyed at cheese, cheapness, and mostly just plain unrealistic characters or dialogue (which really and truly is 99% it seems like of shows). I need either high art or a slice of life. Ghibli or Satoshi Kon for anime, stuff like Kubrick in film, or Mad Men for TV. Mad Men especially was my turning point where after that show I couldn't stomach much else. Call me elitist. I watch lower quality YouTube stuff much more easily (at low attention), but once you're trying to sign me up for 30 minutes or more I just give up. Tried watching the 3 Body Problem on Netflix and in just the first scenes (cultural revolution + the scientists convo on God) were so full of cringe. I kept it on as background a bit but petered out after a few episodes.
napierzaza 3y ago
[dead]

Waterluvian 3y ago

It’s an excuse for those who can’t achieve greatness while being great.