4 ms·

What's the purported logic for Alaska belonging to Russia? It was Russia's idea to sell Alaska in the first place, and was signed off by the emperor.

kibwen 3y ago
[flagged]
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Not sure why you're downvoted for this, but it's exactly right. It's the same reason why liberals in the US remain flummoxed by Trump. You can't prove him wrong, he (and his supporters) doesn't care. It's about might-makes-right in all aspects. The quickly uttered phrase "alternative facts" is more cogent than critics will admit.
SamBam 3y ago
The "historical borders" argument explicitly ignores anything that happened after the greatest extent of the borders. See also: Ukraine.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Putin routinely frames the decisions of his "weak" predecessors as unjust and in need of repair. Hence his justification of the invasion of Ukraine leans heavily on an ideological foundation that Lenin and Krushchev (and probably Gorbachev->Yeltsin) are to blame for its very existence. He ranted at length about Lenin in his speech on the eve of the invasion, and the talking point that "Crimea isn't Ukrainian it was a gift to them in the Kruschev era!" is all over the place, even by western sympathisers^Wuseful idiots. I imagine he could frame the Alaska scenario in a similar way, though I doubt he'd actually go that far. It's a "might makes right" philosophy. Those predecessors were "wrong" because they were weak, and a strong Russia is "right" or will make things "right" through its inherent superiority.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
No, no, no. The emperor signed a long-term lease, not a sale. The lease expired in 1999. The US owes Russia 25 years of rent, in addition to Alaska. I'm kidding, of course. But reality has never gotten in the way of these kinds of claims...
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  Expecting Russia to stand by something Alexander II signed is a bit like expecting the USA to stand by something George III signed. Things have happened since then. I mean, Putin is a nutter but your argument is terrible.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    1. My post wasn't an argument; it was snark. 2. What Alexander signed is enough that the US isn't going to give it back, ever. And no Russian government since Alexander II has been in a position where taking Alaska back is a possibility.

kibwen 3y ago

[flagged]

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Not sure why you're downvoted for this, but it's exactly right. It's the same reason why liberals in the US remain flummoxed by Trump. You can't prove him wrong, he (and his supporters) doesn't care. It's about might-makes-right in all aspects. The quickly uttered phrase "alternative facts" is more cogent than critics will admit.

SamBam 3y ago

The "historical borders" argument explicitly ignores anything that happened after the greatest extent of the borders. See also: Ukraine.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Putin routinely frames the decisions of his "weak" predecessors as unjust and in need of repair. Hence his justification of the invasion of Ukraine leans heavily on an ideological foundation that Lenin and Krushchev (and probably Gorbachev->Yeltsin) are to blame for its very existence. He ranted at length about Lenin in his speech on the eve of the invasion, and the talking point that "Crimea isn't Ukrainian it was a gift to them in the Kruschev era!" is all over the place, even by western sympathisers^Wuseful idiots. I imagine he could frame the Alaska scenario in a similar way, though I doubt he'd actually go that far. It's a "might makes right" philosophy. Those predecessors were "wrong" because they were weak, and a strong Russia is "right" or will make things "right" through its inherent superiority.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

No, no, no. The emperor signed a long-term lease, not a sale. The lease expired in 1999. The US owes Russia 25 years of rent, in addition to Alaska. I'm kidding, of course. But reality has never gotten in the way of these kinds of claims...

olddustytrail 3y ago
Expecting Russia to stand by something Alexander II signed is a bit like expecting the USA to stand by something George III signed. Things have happened since then. I mean, Putin is a nutter but your argument is terrible.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  1. My post wasn't an argument; it was snark. 2. What Alexander signed is enough that the US isn't going to give it back, ever. And no Russian government since Alexander II has been in a position where taking Alaska back is a possibility.