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I feel you must be trolling now by how confidently incorrect you are, but in case you are not: > Time complexity of data structures is lower in JS What data s

by mpeg 2y ago

I feel you must be trolling now by how confidently incorrect you are, but in case you are not: > Time complexity of data structures is lower in JS What data structures? All of them? You know you can implement your own data structures if you need them to be optimal > V8 compiles to machine code in less steps than Python The "steps" or time it takes to compile has no bearing on runtime performance. v8 is generally faster on micro-benchmarks, but in python you spend most of your time calling out to libraries that are heavily optimised, the javascript library ecosystem is a complete joke for ML/AI compared to python's – for example there is nothing that can compare to numpy in js. > Process forking - the concept that functions can run in parallel in the same thread This is a OS feature and has nothing to do with js or python. I have to point out though that when you fork a process you are creating a new thread. This will be my last comment, it is clear to me now that you posted this thread to stroke your own ego and have no interest in actually learning anything. Good luck with your GPT-killer :)

_akhe 2y ago
Not joking, not trolling, thought it was widely known that JavaScript is generally significantly faster than Python. Haven't had this debate in 15 years, but let me explain: > What data structures? Everything in JavaScript is an object, even Arrays. So even an Array lookup is O(1) in JavaScript - not true in Python where it has to search the Array. Only if you created key/val pairs in Python (via list/hash) could you exploit the O(1) lookup for accessing data, but I can't use Python list for a large model like an LLM without hitting memory errors (see: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5537618/memory-errors-and-list-limits https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5537618/memory-errors-an...) > Python is run-time Both languages are dynamic (not compiled) lol, what are you trying to say here? The point is that the number of steps it takes to go from high-level dynamic code (scripts) to machine-readable instructions is 1 step in JS, but 2 steps in Python, that's literally why it's slower to RUN than JavaScript. Literally runs slower as in number of executions. > Multi-process is an OS feature that has nothing to do with JS or Python Not true in the slightest. It's a language feature. I'll use my favorite word of the day and say it's an "exploit" more than a feature, when you can run what would be blocking IO in parallel. Python on the other hand is "single flow" executing statements one-at-a-time. What a toxic comment, I said thanks to everyone else but not you. I retract my thank you! I hope you learned something today at least. This made me LOL: "JS uses some heuristics to decide whether to use a hashmap or to make the object as a static struct" neither hashmap nor struct exists in JS, just funny. There's ES6 Map, but that is really just an Object, not the other way around lol
- selcuka 2y ago
  > Everything in JavaScript is an object, even Arrays. So even an Array lookup is O(1) in JavaScript - not true in Python where it has to search the Array. Huh? Array and list lookups are O(1) in Python too. Who told you that? Searching is different, and it's O(n) in both JS and Python. Can you really believe two mainstream programming languages can have such a drastic difference in time complexity? Also, not my comment, but: > JS uses some heuristics to decide whether to use a hashmap or to make the object as a static struct" neither hashmap nor struct exists in JS, just funny. I'm pretty sure they meant that Javascript internally uses either a hashmap or a struct (you can do something close in Python using __slots__) to represent an object. Those are standard data structure names, even though Javascript doesn't use the same terminology. Python doesn't call them hashmaps either.
  - _akhe 2y ago
    My bad it's on the insertion side, you can O(1) insert into the middle of Array-likes like Set in JS (which I use in this lib), where I think Python is O(n) for all it's Array-likes. Think you can O(1) append to an Array though. But there are at least a few other reasons Python is generally slower than JavaScript. It's popular in ML because it was popular in math, and it was popular in math because it's easy to teach in schools. People use Python for its ML libraries, and now its ML communities, not because it's a fast language - it isn't really. And has no browser implementation, so there are a few reasons I didn't choose Python. Reading it again I think I understand what the other poster meant now, but they also said "multi-process has nothing to do with the language" when it does have a lot to do with scaling Node especially to handle concurrency. I did a little demo here a while ago to show what I mean, check out the browser tab example: https://github.com/bennyschmidt/simple-node-multiprocess https://github.com/bennyschmidt/simple-node-multiprocess Thanks for your comments, I hate language vs language debates! :D
    - selcuka 2y ago
      > you can O(1) insert into the middle of Array-likes like Set in JS Sets are supposed to retain the insertion order. I don't think you can insert into the middle, let alone in O(1) time (as they are hashmaps, not linked lists). > I hate language vs language debates! I wasn't trying to compare JS to Python. My aim was to clarify a misunderstanding re: data structures used.

by mpeg 2y ago

_akhe 2y ago

Not joking, not trolling, thought it was widely known that JavaScript is generally significantly faster than Python. Haven't had this debate in 15 years, but let me explain: > What data structures? Everything in JavaScript is an object, even Arrays. So even an Array lookup is O(1) in JavaScript - not true in Python where it has to search the Array. Only if you created key/val pairs in Python (via list/hash) could you exploit the O(1) lookup for accessing data, but I can't use Python list for a large model like an LLM without hitting memory errors (see: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5537618/memory-errors-and-list-limits https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5537618/memory-errors-an...) > Python is run-time Both languages are dynamic (not compiled) lol, what are you trying to say here? The point is that the number of steps it takes to go from high-level dynamic code (scripts) to machine-readable instructions is 1 step in JS, but 2 steps in Python, that's literally why it's slower to RUN than JavaScript. Literally runs slower as in number of executions. > Multi-process is an OS feature that has nothing to do with JS or Python Not true in the slightest. It's a language feature. I'll use my favorite word of the day and say it's an "exploit" more than a feature, when you can run what would be blocking IO in parallel. Python on the other hand is "single flow" executing statements one-at-a-time. What a toxic comment, I said thanks to everyone else but not you. I retract my thank you! I hope you learned something today at least. This made me LOL: "JS uses some heuristics to decide whether to use a hashmap or to make the object as a static struct" neither hashmap nor struct exists in JS, just funny. There's ES6 Map, but that is really just an Object, not the other way around lol

selcuka 2y ago
> Everything in JavaScript is an object, even Arrays. So even an Array lookup is O(1) in JavaScript - not true in Python where it has to search the Array. Huh? Array and list lookups are O(1) in Python too. Who told you that? Searching is different, and it's O(n) in both JS and Python. Can you really believe two mainstream programming languages can have such a drastic difference in time complexity? Also, not my comment, but: > JS uses some heuristics to decide whether to use a hashmap or to make the object as a static struct" neither hashmap nor struct exists in JS, just funny. I'm pretty sure they meant that Javascript internally uses either a hashmap or a struct (you can do something close in Python using __slots__) to represent an object. Those are standard data structure names, even though Javascript doesn't use the same terminology. Python doesn't call them hashmaps either.
- _akhe 2y ago
  My bad it's on the insertion side, you can O(1) insert into the middle of Array-likes like Set in JS (which I use in this lib), where I think Python is O(n) for all it's Array-likes. Think you can O(1) append to an Array though. But there are at least a few other reasons Python is generally slower than JavaScript. It's popular in ML because it was popular in math, and it was popular in math because it's easy to teach in schools. People use Python for its ML libraries, and now its ML communities, not because it's a fast language - it isn't really. And has no browser implementation, so there are a few reasons I didn't choose Python. Reading it again I think I understand what the other poster meant now, but they also said "multi-process has nothing to do with the language" when it does have a lot to do with scaling Node especially to handle concurrency. I did a little demo here a while ago to show what I mean, check out the browser tab example: https://github.com/bennyschmidt/simple-node-multiprocess https://github.com/bennyschmidt/simple-node-multiprocess Thanks for your comments, I hate language vs language debates! :D
  - selcuka 2y ago
    > you can O(1) insert into the middle of Array-likes like Set in JS Sets are supposed to retain the insertion order. I don't think you can insert into the middle, let alone in O(1) time (as they are hashmaps, not linked lists). > I hate language vs language debates! I wasn't trying to compare JS to Python. My aim was to clarify a misunderstanding re: data structures used.