5 ms·

The Costs of Homeownership Are Skyrocketing

19 points by rex_gallorum2 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
readyman 2y ago
[flagged]
xnx 2y ago
https://archive.ph/VjUpn https://archive.ph/VjUpn
xnx 2y ago
Has the inflation adjusted percent of income spent on all housing costs per square foot of space per occupant changed appreciably over time? I see too many articles that don't even attempt to control for the most obvious of factors.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Percent of income doesn't need to be adjusted for inflation :)
  - chung8123 2y ago
    If we are spending more of a percentage of our income for more space that is more about changing desires than price inflation. It is just a way to compare apples to apples.
- throwaway2016a 2y ago
  I hear this all the time but it doesn't make much sense, IMO. Buyers do not control the square footage of inventory and for the most part are not looking for a huge house. "The house I just bought is 4k square feet because I demanded a huge house" is very different than "The house is 4k square feet because it was one of only 3 houses put on the market this month and it was either this or no house at all." So, while yes, it is probably true that a lot of houses on the market are probably generally larger, I'm not sure that matters for this debate unless the buyers are actually demanding that (which in my experience, they are not). "But your houses is bigger" is no consolation when you didn't want a big house to begin with. It's a signal what the builders are building and zoning laws allow is completely out of touch with what people actually want. Yes, demand drives up cost but the demand is there because people want housing and the only houses available are huge not because they are looking for huge houses.
  - bennyhill 2y ago
    Its also not buyer and future occupants that determine (new) house sizes. Local government in many places uses zoning to make sure new dwelings bring more tax income than school age children costs.
    - throwaway2016a 2y ago
      Yes, absolutely. I did mention zoning in my message, which definitely plays a big role. Not just property tax related but also a lot of existing property don't want high density housing in their back yard.
  - xnx 2y ago
    > Buyers do not control the square footage of inventory and for the most part are not looking for a huge house. Collectively, over time, buyers' preferences are manifested in the housing stock. Same as with cars getting bigger.
    - throwaway2016a 2y ago
      I know in theory that is how it should work but is there a study to back that up? The thing is, in my estimation, in most places the demand is so high that whatever makes the builders the most is what will get made. Which isn't necessarily what the majority of the market demands. Builders profit more off high square footage and buyers -- desperate for just someplace to live that's not the rental market -- will snatch it up. A 4 bedroom house in my market (granted one of the hottest housing markets in the US) is usually gone just days after listing. Or, to use an analogy, if you open a water stand in the desert and sell flavored water for $5, it doesn't matter if the buyer really wanted plain water for $1, they are still going to buy your water since it is the only water available. And why start offering plain water when the flavored one sells out instantly and makes more profit?
JohnTHaller 2y ago
From 2000 to 2022 in the US adjusted for inflation: The US median income has gone up about 10.5% The average cost per sq foot of new single family home has gone up about 40% The average sale price of a home has gone up about 60% The median sale price of a house has gone up about 70% https://www.statista.com/statistics/682549/average-price-per-square-foot-in-new-single-family-houses-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/682549/average-price-per... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
- dmarchand90 2y ago
  The crazy thing is the US is probably one of the most affordable places in the developed world even now!
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  What about condos? I know US don't appreciate that, but in high density areas, house is not really an option
  - JohnTHaller 2y ago
    The average price of a condo in the US was $357,600 as of July 2023. It varies by location with cities being more expensive. $1.1 million average in NYC. $350,000 in Chicago.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
      Yeah... Damn Vancouver, same price as NYC but salaries 1/4 or less
jjk166 2y ago
> Property taxes and home-maintenance costs are climbing in much of the country. Non-mortgage costs including property taxes, maintenance, utilities and insurance make up more than half of homeowners’ overall costs, according to a 2022 analysis Property taxes are proportional to property values, affected by inflation. Insurance is proportional to property values. Home-maintenance costs are materials and labor, both affected by inflation. Utility prices tend to adjust for inflation. When everything is getting more expensive, it's not a news story that any particular thing is getting more expensive.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
Alternative to archive.ph: https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=2295000470791&w=kmXP7Hkhn-qlQeyVjauyVdhH4ScW9La9 https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=2295000470791&w=kmXP7Hkhn-...

19 points by rex_gallorum2 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

readyman 2y ago

[flagged]

xnx 2y ago

https://archive.ph/VjUpn https://archive.ph/VjUpn

xnx 2y ago

Has the inflation adjusted percent of income spent on all housing costs per square foot of space per occupant changed appreciably over time? I see too many articles that don't even attempt to control for the most obvious of factors.

hollerith 2y ago
Percent of income doesn't need to be adjusted for inflation :)
- chung8123 2y ago
  If we are spending more of a percentage of our income for more space that is more about changing desires than price inflation. It is just a way to compare apples to apples.
throwaway2016a 2y ago
I hear this all the time but it doesn't make much sense, IMO. Buyers do not control the square footage of inventory and for the most part are not looking for a huge house. "The house I just bought is 4k square feet because I demanded a huge house" is very different than "The house is 4k square feet because it was one of only 3 houses put on the market this month and it was either this or no house at all." So, while yes, it is probably true that a lot of houses on the market are probably generally larger, I'm not sure that matters for this debate unless the buyers are actually demanding that (which in my experience, they are not). "But your houses is bigger" is no consolation when you didn't want a big house to begin with. It's a signal what the builders are building and zoning laws allow is completely out of touch with what people actually want. Yes, demand drives up cost but the demand is there because people want housing and the only houses available are huge not because they are looking for huge houses.
- bennyhill 2y ago
  Its also not buyer and future occupants that determine (new) house sizes. Local government in many places uses zoning to make sure new dwelings bring more tax income than school age children costs.
  - throwaway2016a 2y ago
    Yes, absolutely. I did mention zoning in my message, which definitely plays a big role. Not just property tax related but also a lot of existing property don't want high density housing in their back yard.
- xnx 2y ago
  > Buyers do not control the square footage of inventory and for the most part are not looking for a huge house. Collectively, over time, buyers' preferences are manifested in the housing stock. Same as with cars getting bigger.
  - throwaway2016a 2y ago
    I know in theory that is how it should work but is there a study to back that up? The thing is, in my estimation, in most places the demand is so high that whatever makes the builders the most is what will get made. Which isn't necessarily what the majority of the market demands. Builders profit more off high square footage and buyers -- desperate for just someplace to live that's not the rental market -- will snatch it up. A 4 bedroom house in my market (granted one of the hottest housing markets in the US) is usually gone just days after listing. Or, to use an analogy, if you open a water stand in the desert and sell flavored water for $5, it doesn't matter if the buyer really wanted plain water for $1, they are still going to buy your water since it is the only water available. And why start offering plain water when the flavored one sells out instantly and makes more profit?

JohnTHaller 2y ago

From 2000 to 2022 in the US adjusted for inflation: The US median income has gone up about 10.5% The average cost per sq foot of new single family home has gone up about 40% The average sale price of a home has gone up about 60% The median sale price of a house has gone up about 70% https://www.statista.com/statistics/682549/average-price-per-square-foot-in-new-single-family-houses-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/682549/average-price-per... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

dmarchand90 2y ago
The crazy thing is the US is probably one of the most affordable places in the developed world even now!
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
What about condos? I know US don't appreciate that, but in high density areas, house is not really an option
- JohnTHaller 2y ago
  The average price of a condo in the US was $357,600 as of July 2023. It varies by location with cities being more expensive. $1.1 million average in NYC. $350,000 in Chicago.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
    Yeah... Damn Vancouver, same price as NYC but salaries 1/4 or less

jjk166 2y ago

> Property taxes and home-maintenance costs are climbing in much of the country. Non-mortgage costs including property taxes, maintenance, utilities and insurance make up more than half of homeowners’ overall costs, according to a 2022 analysis Property taxes are proportional to property values, affected by inflation. Insurance is proportional to property values. Home-maintenance costs are materials and labor, both affected by inflation. Utility prices tend to adjust for inflation. When everything is getting more expensive, it's not a news story that any particular thing is getting more expensive.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

Alternative to archive.ph: https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=2295000470791&w=kmXP7Hkhn-qlQeyVjauyVdhH4ScW9La9 https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?d=2295000470791&w=kmXP7Hkhn-...