5 ms·

Exactly -- this chart exhibits massive undercoverage bias for the actual proxy measure (number of daily rat sightings), except the skew in this case likely mean

Exactly -- this chart exhibits massive undercoverage bias for the actual proxy measure (number of daily rat sightings), except the skew in this case likely means the actual value is much higher. Somehow, I'm thinking that this won't come as a surprise to any NYC resident.

bagels 2y ago
I was surprised when I visited to see piles of garbage left out on the sidewalks, seemingly with no purpose other than to breed rats.
- RandallBrown 2y ago
  The purpose is so that garbage trucks can collect the trash. NYC has very few alleys.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    Other large cities manage to have trash bins on wheels to collect trash without making it a garbagefest for the rats and other vermin.
    - tekla 2y ago
      Good thing that NYC doesn't have a large driving population that might as well threaten to start riots if they lose free parking spots
    - otoburb 2y ago
      There was a NYT article recently asking this very same question[1] with some background information about the pecularities specific to NYC which make the problem more complex. Obviously, this could be fixed, but would likely meet with fierce resistance from many constituents. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-trash-rules.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-tr...
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > but there’s also a growing number of bins chained to bike racks and sewer grates to prevent people from stealing them. This is fucking wild. Who in their right mind steals trash bins? What would one even want to do with trash bins?
        nsp 2y ago
        As someone who lives in Brooklyn and moved into a place where I was responsible for trash a couple weeks ago, it took ~1 week for someone to swipe my rolling trash bin, graffiti it, burn a couple holes and leave it a few blocks away. No idea why, but it definitely made putting bags on the street more appealing
        jerrysievert 2y ago
        my recycling bin got stolen multiple times in Portland, but mostly because they are handy totes. locally, garbage companies (not sure if just some, or all) scan the barrels and verify they are both at the right address and paid before picking them up.
    - RandallBrown 2y ago
      And most of those cities have alleys to store the trash bins. It's a problem, but it's not such a big problem that anyone wants to actually solve it.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The options seem to be: - Sacks of rubbish left on the street, potentially for many hours (e.g. café closes at 18.00, rubbish is left outside until collection at 05.00-07.00). London has this in some central areas. [0] (took about 3 tries to find this.) - Individual bins (usually with wheels) for each property, which must be left at the front of the property. It can seem excessive if there's not much space to store them, you end up with a road cluttered with bins. Many towns in Britain have this. Literally the first place I looked [1]. - Almost-individual bins. I saw this somewhere I stayed in Sweden, where one house had the recycling bin, and the next had general waste, and so on. Half as much bin clutter on the street. - Larger bins, shared between several properties. Much less street space, much less effort for collection. [2] (also London). In many cities in Europe these take up one parking space on each street/block. - Larger underground bins, which are neatest but presumably the most expensive solution. [3] [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.522472,-0.1188006,3a,75y,50.85h,84.27t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sd7iBgWBz-MuwMkkGcIxSvg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i39?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@51.522472,-0.1188006,3a,75y,50.... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8093732,-1.5728046,3a,75y,109.13h,91.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWBbvkRCPBZM3-NAanLhxOQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DWBbvkRCPBZM3-NAanLhxOQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D208.28204%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8093732,-1.5728046,3a,75y,10... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4893475,-0.1432088,3a,90y,223.5h,75.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd4LN4JX-_CQ64duYnI2SiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4893475,-0.1432088,3a,90y,22... [3] https://www.elkoplast.eu/underground-containers https://www.elkoplast.eu/underground-containers
    - Quinner 2y ago
      - Also in NYC (Roosevelt Island) have every building hooked up to pneumatic tubes and suck it all into a central collection location. https://www.npr.org/2017/07/26/539304811/how-new-york-s-roosevelt-island-sucks-away-summer-trash-stink https://www.npr.org/2017/07/26/539304811/how-new-york-s-roos...
- otoburb 2y ago
  I think you're being sarcastic, but the purpose of leaving the garbage bins outside is so that the garbage trucks can pick them up, as their contract stipulates that they pick up from the sidewalk and not from inside the (numerous) buildings. Even in the suburbs, residents of single-family houses typically need to bring their garbage/recycling bins to the end of their driveways. I think the only time that this isn't the case is when there's a special contract for certain isolated apartment buildings or complexes where the rubbish is stored in larger garbage dumps for the sanitation crews to pick up.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    There is a difference between a garbage bin and a pile of garbage. NYC has piles of garbage bags just on the street.
    - otoburb 2y ago
      NYC has both, because I generally consider compost a type of garbage and that is definitely stored in bins and hauled to the sidewalk, at least for the buildings that have opted into the composting program.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - aetherson 2y ago
    New York City only recently got the memo about putting garbage into bins. (Really!)
  - bagels 2y ago
    Not being sarcastic. Every other place I've been uses containers (wheeled bins, cans, dumpsters) to prevent rats and to make collection cheaper. What is the purpose of piles?
    - djtriptych 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sethhochberg 2y ago
  This is (at long last) rapidly changing: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/nyregion/nyc-trash-containers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/nyregion/nyc-trash-contai... DSNY is pushing hard on getting all trash containerized. Food-related businesses were required to start last summer, all commercial trash's requirement hit just a couple of weeks ago, and residential is rolling out.
- tetromino_ 2y ago
  The bags of garbage are a historical relic. The city allowed trash in bags during as an emergency measure during the 1968 garbage collectors' strike: the metal trash bins were overflowing and garbage on the street in bags was better than garbage on the street raw. The strike ended, decades passed, but the rules were never updated until the last couple years when the city has finally began strongly incentivizing, and in some cases mandating, bins.
  - screenoridesaga 2y ago
    That explanation sounds real, but it isn’t. Really weird, why make something like this up?
    - tetromino_ 2y ago
      I did not make it up; I read it at https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/03/22/trash-city-new-york-is-filthy-and-the-fault-is-government-inertia https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/03/22/trash-city-new-york-i... (see "Hooked on plastic" section in the article). If you believe that this account is wrong, I am interested in hearing the true story, and seeing some sources if you have them.
- dtjb 2y ago
  You can see this in the large outlier on Feb 12 2017, which coincided with a storm that delayed trash pickup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12%E2%80%9314,_2017_North_American_blizzard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12%E2%80%9314,_2017_N... https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-snowstorm-cleanup/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-snowstorm-cleanup/

bagels 2y ago

I was surprised when I visited to see piles of garbage left out on the sidewalks, seemingly with no purpose other than to breed rats.

RandallBrown 2y ago
The purpose is so that garbage trucks can collect the trash. NYC has very few alleys.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Other large cities manage to have trash bins on wheels to collect trash without making it a garbagefest for the rats and other vermin.
  - tekla 2y ago
    Good thing that NYC doesn't have a large driving population that might as well threaten to start riots if they lose free parking spots
  - otoburb 2y ago
    There was a NYT article recently asking this very same question[1] with some background information about the pecularities specific to NYC which make the problem more complex. Obviously, this could be fixed, but would likely meet with fierce resistance from many constituents. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-trash-rules.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-tr...
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > but there’s also a growing number of bins chained to bike racks and sewer grates to prevent people from stealing them. This is fucking wild. Who in their right mind steals trash bins? What would one even want to do with trash bins?
      - nsp 2y ago
        As someone who lives in Brooklyn and moved into a place where I was responsible for trash a couple weeks ago, it took ~1 week for someone to swipe my rolling trash bin, graffiti it, burn a couple holes and leave it a few blocks away. No idea why, but it definitely made putting bags on the street more appealing
      - jerrysievert 2y ago
        my recycling bin got stolen multiple times in Portland, but mostly because they are handy totes. locally, garbage companies (not sure if just some, or all) scan the barrels and verify they are both at the right address and paid before picking them up.
  - RandallBrown 2y ago
    And most of those cities have alleys to store the trash bins. It's a problem, but it's not such a big problem that anyone wants to actually solve it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The options seem to be: - Sacks of rubbish left on the street, potentially for many hours (e.g. café closes at 18.00, rubbish is left outside until collection at 05.00-07.00). London has this in some central areas. [0] (took about 3 tries to find this.) - Individual bins (usually with wheels) for each property, which must be left at the front of the property. It can seem excessive if there's not much space to store them, you end up with a road cluttered with bins. Many towns in Britain have this. Literally the first place I looked [1]. - Almost-individual bins. I saw this somewhere I stayed in Sweden, where one house had the recycling bin, and the next had general waste, and so on. Half as much bin clutter on the street. - Larger bins, shared between several properties. Much less street space, much less effort for collection. [2] (also London). In many cities in Europe these take up one parking space on each street/block. - Larger underground bins, which are neatest but presumably the most expensive solution. [3] [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.522472,-0.1188006,3a,75y,50.85h,84.27t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sd7iBgWBz-MuwMkkGcIxSvg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i39?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@51.522472,-0.1188006,3a,75y,50.... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8093732,-1.5728046,3a,75y,109.13h,91.82t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWBbvkRCPBZM3-NAanLhxOQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DWBbvkRCPBZM3-NAanLhxOQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D208.28204%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8093732,-1.5728046,3a,75y,10... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4893475,-0.1432088,3a,90y,223.5h,75.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd4LN4JX-_CQ64duYnI2SiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4893475,-0.1432088,3a,90y,22... [3] https://www.elkoplast.eu/underground-containers https://www.elkoplast.eu/underground-containers
  - Quinner 2y ago
    - Also in NYC (Roosevelt Island) have every building hooked up to pneumatic tubes and suck it all into a central collection location. https://www.npr.org/2017/07/26/539304811/how-new-york-s-roosevelt-island-sucks-away-summer-trash-stink https://www.npr.org/2017/07/26/539304811/how-new-york-s-roos...
otoburb 2y ago
I think you're being sarcastic, but the purpose of leaving the garbage bins outside is so that the garbage trucks can pick them up, as their contract stipulates that they pick up from the sidewalk and not from inside the (numerous) buildings. Even in the suburbs, residents of single-family houses typically need to bring their garbage/recycling bins to the end of their driveways. I think the only time that this isn't the case is when there's a special contract for certain isolated apartment buildings or complexes where the rubbish is stored in larger garbage dumps for the sanitation crews to pick up.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  There is a difference between a garbage bin and a pile of garbage. NYC has piles of garbage bags just on the street.
  - otoburb 2y ago
    NYC has both, because I generally consider compost a type of garbage and that is definitely stored in bins and hauled to the sidewalk, at least for the buildings that have opted into the composting program.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- aetherson 2y ago
  New York City only recently got the memo about putting garbage into bins. (Really!)
- bagels 2y ago
  Not being sarcastic. Every other place I've been uses containers (wheeled bins, cans, dumpsters) to prevent rats and to make collection cheaper. What is the purpose of piles?
  - djtriptych 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sethhochberg 2y ago
This is (at long last) rapidly changing: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/nyregion/nyc-trash-containers.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/nyregion/nyc-trash-contai... DSNY is pushing hard on getting all trash containerized. Food-related businesses were required to start last summer, all commercial trash's requirement hit just a couple of weeks ago, and residential is rolling out.
tetromino_ 2y ago
The bags of garbage are a historical relic. The city allowed trash in bags during as an emergency measure during the 1968 garbage collectors' strike: the metal trash bins were overflowing and garbage on the street in bags was better than garbage on the street raw. The strike ended, decades passed, but the rules were never updated until the last couple years when the city has finally began strongly incentivizing, and in some cases mandating, bins.
- screenoridesaga 2y ago
  That explanation sounds real, but it isn’t. Really weird, why make something like this up?
  - tetromino_ 2y ago
    I did not make it up; I read it at https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/03/22/trash-city-new-york-is-filthy-and-the-fault-is-government-inertia https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2022/03/22/trash-city-new-york-i... (see "Hooked on plastic" section in the article). If you believe that this account is wrong, I am interested in hearing the true story, and seeing some sources if you have them.
dtjb 2y ago
You can see this in the large outlier on Feb 12 2017, which coincided with a storm that delayed trash pickup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12%E2%80%9314,_2017_North_American_blizzard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_12%E2%80%9314,_2017_N... https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-snowstorm-cleanup/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nyc-snowstorm-cleanup/