5 ms·

What about a list of blocked sites? Many ISPs are in cahoots with governments and corporations to block sites without ever notifying their clients, and I'm sure

by Funes- 3y ago

What about a list of blocked sites? Many ISPs are in cahoots with governments and corporations to block sites without ever notifying their clients, and I'm sure the US is no exception.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> ISPs are in cahoots with governments and corporations to block sites without ever notifying their clients, and I'm sure the US is no exception It is. We have the First Amendment. If you have examples to the contrary, I’m incredibly curious to see it.
- Funes- 3y ago
  Trying to visit Library Genesis or Sci-Hub throws me a 451 error ("File unavailable For Legal Reasons"), for instance. Monoskop.org couldn't be loaded either some months ago and I had to go through the Tor browser to visit it, as well. These aren't violating any law in the European country in which I reside.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Library Genesis or Sci-Hub throws me a 451 error libgen.li and sci-hub.se loaded for me fine. > aren't violating any law in the European country in which I reside No clue. These labels are for the United States. Our government can’t tell ISPs to block a site.
  - kbolino 3y ago
    That's (very likely) server-side blocking based on IP geolocation, not ISP blocking.
    - Funes- 3y ago
      Absolutely not. There are some ISPs left in the country that aren't blocking access to those very sites. I mean, I was accessing them no problem until I switched providers. That's precisely how I found out they were blocking them.
      - kbolino 3y ago
        Changing ISPs will change your IP address, and IP geolocation databases are not always accurate. Unless the ISP in question also controls a certificate authority, it is not possible for it to block an individual website served over HTTPS by altering the status code. The fact that you get a 451 indicates that the server is blocking you. [edit: DNS over HTTPS and other secure-by-default policies in most modern browsers also frustrate ISP blocking/hijacking of individual sites]
        Funes- 3y ago
        >it is not possible for it to block an individual website served over HTTPS by altering the status code. The fact that you get a 451 indicates that the server is blocking you. I think I just realized what they're doing. Here's what I think is happening: my current ISP just downright blocks the HTTPS site, but when you try to access it through HTTP, you get a blank page with text in bold type that says "HTTP 451 – File unavailable For Legal Reasons". However, other ISPs show you a different page: a blank page all the same, but with a different message ("For reasons beyond [ISP]'s control, this webpage is blocked"). It could be that they are injecting these pages to the visitors and that my current provider just copied and pasted the status error's default text, instead of posting a custom message, like the other company. If it was the page who's blocking me, based on my geolocation, the 451 error should come up both over HTTP and HTTPS, but it doesn't. It's either that, or my ISP is altering the status code only for the HTTP site, and blocking access to the HTTPS one.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Not sure why you'd assume the US is responsible for blocking sites for you in Europe. All three sites work fine here. https://libgen.li/ https://libgen.li/ https://sci-hub.se/ https://sci-hub.se/ https://monoskop.org/Monoskop https://monoskop.org/Monoskop
    - Funes- 3y ago
      >Not sure why you'd assume the US is responsible for blocking sites for you in Europe I never said that. I said that ISPs in my country (Europe) are blocking these sites, and I (wrongly) thought that ISPs in the US would be doing the same, generally.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    Not sure what’s going on in your country, but in Ireland, 451 is, pretty universally, a sign that the site operator has just blocked Europe rather than complying with the GDPR.
    - Funes- 3y ago
      No. Just accessed it through Norway, Luxembourg, Germany, Finland, and Romania. Not a single problem arose. This is more probably what happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40004163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40004163.
filoleg 3y ago
Afaik none of the ISPs in the US just have their own lists of blocked websites. Not even talking about “they dont have the lists available,” I am saying that they dont just block websites. With the only exception being when they are ordered to do so by law, in which case it would apply to all ISPs at once (thus making the idea of putting those on the label used for comparing ISP services kinda pointless). As of now, I believe there are exactly 3 websites that are blocked by every single ISP in the US due to a court order[0]. Which is kind of their legal obligation. 0. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/05/judge-rules-every-isp-in-us-must-block-pirate-sites-run-by-mysterious-defendants/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/05/judge-rules-ever...

by Funes- 3y ago

What about a list of blocked sites? Many ISPs are in cahoots with governments and corporations to block sites without ever notifying their clients, and I'm sure the US is no exception.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> ISPs are in cahoots with governments and corporations to block sites without ever notifying their clients, and I'm sure the US is no exception It is. We have the First Amendment. If you have examples to the contrary, I’m incredibly curious to see it.

Funes- 3y ago
Trying to visit Library Genesis or Sci-Hub throws me a 451 error ("File unavailable For Legal Reasons"), for instance. Monoskop.org couldn't be loaded either some months ago and I had to go through the Tor browser to visit it, as well. These aren't violating any law in the European country in which I reside.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Library Genesis or Sci-Hub throws me a 451 error libgen.li and sci-hub.se loaded for me fine. > aren't violating any law in the European country in which I reside No clue. These labels are for the United States. Our government can’t tell ISPs to block a site.
- kbolino 3y ago
  That's (very likely) server-side blocking based on IP geolocation, not ISP blocking.
  - Funes- 3y ago
    Absolutely not. There are some ISPs left in the country that aren't blocking access to those very sites. I mean, I was accessing them no problem until I switched providers. That's precisely how I found out they were blocking them.
    - kbolino 3y ago
      Changing ISPs will change your IP address, and IP geolocation databases are not always accurate. Unless the ISP in question also controls a certificate authority, it is not possible for it to block an individual website served over HTTPS by altering the status code. The fact that you get a 451 indicates that the server is blocking you. [edit: DNS over HTTPS and other secure-by-default policies in most modern browsers also frustrate ISP blocking/hijacking of individual sites]
      - Funes- 3y ago
        >it is not possible for it to block an individual website served over HTTPS by altering the status code. The fact that you get a 451 indicates that the server is blocking you. I think I just realized what they're doing. Here's what I think is happening: my current ISP just downright blocks the HTTPS site, but when you try to access it through HTTP, you get a blank page with text in bold type that says "HTTP 451 – File unavailable For Legal Reasons". However, other ISPs show you a different page: a blank page all the same, but with a different message ("For reasons beyond [ISP]'s control, this webpage is blocked"). It could be that they are injecting these pages to the visitors and that my current provider just copied and pasted the status error's default text, instead of posting a custom message, like the other company. If it was the page who's blocking me, based on my geolocation, the 451 error should come up both over HTTP and HTTPS, but it doesn't. It's either that, or my ISP is altering the status code only for the HTTP site, and blocking access to the HTTPS one.
- itishappy 3y ago
  Not sure why you'd assume the US is responsible for blocking sites for you in Europe. All three sites work fine here. https://libgen.li/ https://libgen.li/ https://sci-hub.se/ https://sci-hub.se/ https://monoskop.org/Monoskop https://monoskop.org/Monoskop
  - Funes- 3y ago
    >Not sure why you'd assume the US is responsible for blocking sites for you in Europe I never said that. I said that ISPs in my country (Europe) are blocking these sites, and I (wrongly) thought that ISPs in the US would be doing the same, generally.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Not sure what’s going on in your country, but in Ireland, 451 is, pretty universally, a sign that the site operator has just blocked Europe rather than complying with the GDPR.
  - Funes- 3y ago
    No. Just accessed it through Norway, Luxembourg, Germany, Finland, and Romania. Not a single problem arose. This is more probably what happened: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40004163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40004163.

filoleg 3y ago

Afaik none of the ISPs in the US just have their own lists of blocked websites. Not even talking about “they dont have the lists available,” I am saying that they dont just block websites. With the only exception being when they are ordered to do so by law, in which case it would apply to all ISPs at once (thus making the idea of putting those on the label used for comparing ISP services kinda pointless). As of now, I believe there are exactly 3 websites that are blocked by every single ISP in the US due to a court order[0]. Which is kind of their legal obligation. 0. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/05/judge-rules-every-isp-in-us-must-block-pirate-sites-run-by-mysterious-defendants/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/05/judge-rules-ever...