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> If the allegation is true, it looks like Protonmail decided to munge e-mails without anyone opting into it. As an active protonmail user, unfortunately they

> If the allegation is true, it looks like Protonmail decided to munge e-mails without anyone opting into it. As an active protonmail user, unfortunately they have a long history of this. My major gripe is that they manipulate emails that I've sent over the desktop bridge. If you sign your emails locally, this of course completely breaks the signature. And if you are sending emails to mailing lists, their internal email header fuckery has a history of eating things like reply-to headers that they can't find a local copy of in your mailbox. I love their web interface and I am a big advocate of their other features but I am begging Protonmail to just give users the option to send their emails without interference through the desktop bridge.

tristan957 3y ago
I just want an opt-in IMAP and SMTP endpoint that actually works. I've debated moving to Fastmail so many times.
- twiss 3y ago
  Unfortunately, we can't easily offer direct IMAP access, because no external email client offers support for everything we need and use in OpenPGP (such as for automatic forwarding, which is currently just a draft [1], but we hope will become an RFC in the future). That's why Proton Bridge exists: to be able to decrypt all emails, including internally forwarded ones, and present them to the email client unencrypted - and vice versa when sending. Obviously this involves some muching of the emails, for better or worse. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wussler-openpgp-forwarding https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wussler-openpgp-...
  - tristan957 3y ago
    If the Bridge always has to exist, it would be great if Proton gave it more love. We don't have any WebDAV support right now, which means I can't see my calendars in GNOME Calendar or my contacts in GNOME Contacts. JMAP would be a great addition. Adding support for various IMAP RFCs would be great too. As it is right now, the IMAP is pretty much unusable in my email client of choice. I'm pretty much forced to use Thunderbird due to the RFCs that just aren't supported by the Bridge (gluon). Even going to the gluon repo, the last commit was 2 months ago :(. I don't understand how I as a power user who sends plain text emails is supposed to survive on Proton Mail. I can't use it for mailing list development, at all. Fastmail just seems to be blowing Proton Mail out of the water in terms of IMAP/SMTP/JMAP. They are actively working on the protocols. Proton doesn't seem to be. Link: https://github.com/ProtonMail/gluon/issues/378 https://github.com/ProtonMail/gluon/issues/378
    - altairprime 3y ago
      What is your email client of choice? What specific IMAP features are missing from Proton Bridge that you need in order to use it?
floren 3y ago
> My major gripe is that they manipulate emails that I've sent over the desktop bridge. If you sign your emails locally, this of course completely breaks the signature. Aha, another sufferer! There must be dozens of us, DOZENS I say!
twiss 3y ago
Here's some background on what Proton Bridge does and why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36643124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36643124. The recommended way to send signed emails is to let Bridge do it for you; you can enable this with a setting in Proton Mail called "Sign external messages". Our goal is to make it easy to send and receive signed and encrypted emails. That's what Proton Mail is for. If you want to set up PGP signing and/or encryption yourself, a different service may be more suitable.
- kkoyung 3y ago
  I understand Proton's motto is "Privacy by default". But, is it possible to have an alternative option to make Proton Bridge act as a standard IMAP and SMTP server? It could be turned off by default, and requires users to turn it on by themselves.

tristan957 3y ago

I just want an opt-in IMAP and SMTP endpoint that actually works. I've debated moving to Fastmail so many times.

twiss 3y ago
Unfortunately, we can't easily offer direct IMAP access, because no external email client offers support for everything we need and use in OpenPGP (such as for automatic forwarding, which is currently just a draft [1], but we hope will become an RFC in the future). That's why Proton Bridge exists: to be able to decrypt all emails, including internally forwarded ones, and present them to the email client unencrypted - and vice versa when sending. Obviously this involves some muching of the emails, for better or worse. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wussler-openpgp-forwarding https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wussler-openpgp-...
- tristan957 3y ago
  If the Bridge always has to exist, it would be great if Proton gave it more love. We don't have any WebDAV support right now, which means I can't see my calendars in GNOME Calendar or my contacts in GNOME Contacts. JMAP would be a great addition. Adding support for various IMAP RFCs would be great too. As it is right now, the IMAP is pretty much unusable in my email client of choice. I'm pretty much forced to use Thunderbird due to the RFCs that just aren't supported by the Bridge (gluon). Even going to the gluon repo, the last commit was 2 months ago :(. I don't understand how I as a power user who sends plain text emails is supposed to survive on Proton Mail. I can't use it for mailing list development, at all. Fastmail just seems to be blowing Proton Mail out of the water in terms of IMAP/SMTP/JMAP. They are actively working on the protocols. Proton doesn't seem to be. Link: https://github.com/ProtonMail/gluon/issues/378 https://github.com/ProtonMail/gluon/issues/378
  - altairprime 3y ago
    What is your email client of choice? What specific IMAP features are missing from Proton Bridge that you need in order to use it?

floren 3y ago

> My major gripe is that they manipulate emails that I've sent over the desktop bridge. If you sign your emails locally, this of course completely breaks the signature. Aha, another sufferer! There must be dozens of us, DOZENS I say!

twiss 3y ago

Here's some background on what Proton Bridge does and why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36643124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36643124. The recommended way to send signed emails is to let Bridge do it for you; you can enable this with a setting in Proton Mail called "Sign external messages". Our goal is to make it easy to send and receive signed and encrypted emails. That's what Proton Mail is for. If you want to set up PGP signing and/or encryption yourself, a different service may be more suitable.

kkoyung 3y ago
I understand Proton's motto is "Privacy by default". But, is it possible to have an alternative option to make Proton Bridge act as a standard IMAP and SMTP server? It could be turned off by default, and requires users to turn it on by themselves.