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Abu Dhabi does not belong in the list with the other ones. It has been extremely well run since Zayed bin Sultan and will probably transition quite well to a po

Abu Dhabi does not belong in the list with the other ones. It has been extremely well run since Zayed bin Sultan and will probably transition quite well to a post oil future.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Abu Dhabi does not belong in the list with the other ones. It has been extremely well run since Zayed bin Sultan It's also governed differently from the others in being an oligarchy. That requirement for consensus-building and internal variation creates robustness; it gave Dubai the room to experiment, for example, with religious moderation. It's not a view I hold too seriously. But I remember visiting the Emirates and Saudi Arabia--shortly after the Phillipines and India--and thinking to myself that the British were, in their time, far better at nation building than we've (EDIT: America) been in the post-War era.
- dkdbejwi383 3y ago
  > the British were, in their time, far better at nation building than we've been in the post-War era who does "we" refer to? The Dutch? France?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > who does "we" refer to? The Dutch? France? Sorry, clarified as America. Not aware of any Dutch nation building after WWII. (I'd argue the British also did better than the French.)
    - nicolas_t 3y ago
      If you read historical political discourses in France regarding the colonies, it's easy to see why the British were far better than the French. There was a lot of talk about bringing the light of civilizations to those poor colonies so, in general, they pretty much tore down the existing administrations and instead recreated their own administration from the top up. The British strategy was far more pragmatic, they kept the local powers in place and played each of them against each other to maintain control over the colonies. Of course, I'm generalizing but there's a clear difference of ideology that I do think explain the differences between the French and British when it came to managing their colonial empire.
  - zaphirplane 3y ago
    As in invading, killing, raping, pillaging, dividing areas into artificial countries
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mamonster 3y ago
  I don't know if oligarchy is the correct word, its more like a union of 7 mini-monarchies. UAE is doing so well for (mainly) 2 reasons: 1) The Shakhbut coup in Abu Dhabi 2) Abu Dhabi and Dubai buried the hatchet to form UAE(there was a lot of bad blood between the 2 states, but because Rashid bin Saeed and Zayed bin Sultan were way above average as far as authoritarians go they managed to avoid stupid conflicts and focused on cashing in on the oil).
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > I don't know if oligarchy is the correct word, its more like a union of 7 mini-monarchies Fair enough. And as you describe, it's more a diarchy of Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Nevertheless, structurally different from the absolute monarchies around them.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      It's basically just Abu Dhabi now, because they bailed out Dubai's housing sector on multiple occasion - in 2009 [0], 2019 [1], 2020 [2], and (down the grapevine) I've heard they might be providing an additional bailout to Dubai soon. Furthermore, Saudi has started requiring companies that are operating in Saudi to operate a Saudi office, and won't give tenders to those who are managing the relationship remotely from Dubai now, so companies have started moving staff to Riyadh. > Nevertheless, structurally different from the absolute monarchies around them MbS is trying to remake KSA into an Abu Dhabi 2.0, as MbZ was his mentor [0] - https://www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/12/14/dubai.10.billion.bailout/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/12/14/dubai.10.billion.bai... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1PU1LI/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1PU1LI/ [2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN22R23G/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN22R23G/
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  > experiment, for example, with religious moderation I'm not sure if this is satire or not... Religious moderation should be the default, not something to 'experiment' with.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    Are you saying "should" is the same as "is"?

Abu Dhabi does not belong in the list with the other ones. It has been extremely well run since Zayed bin Sultan and will probably transition quite well to a post oil future.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Abu Dhabi does not belong in the list with the other ones. It has been extremely well run since Zayed bin Sultan It's also governed differently from the others in being an oligarchy. That requirement for consensus-building and internal variation creates robustness; it gave Dubai the room to experiment, for example, with religious moderation. It's not a view I hold too seriously. But I remember visiting the Emirates and Saudi Arabia--shortly after the Phillipines and India--and thinking to myself that the British were, in their time, far better at nation building than we've (EDIT: America) been in the post-War era.

dkdbejwi383 3y ago
> the British were, in their time, far better at nation building than we've been in the post-War era who does "we" refer to? The Dutch? France?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > who does "we" refer to? The Dutch? France? Sorry, clarified as America. Not aware of any Dutch nation building after WWII. (I'd argue the British also did better than the French.)
  - nicolas_t 3y ago
    If you read historical political discourses in France regarding the colonies, it's easy to see why the British were far better than the French. There was a lot of talk about bringing the light of civilizations to those poor colonies so, in general, they pretty much tore down the existing administrations and instead recreated their own administration from the top up. The British strategy was far more pragmatic, they kept the local powers in place and played each of them against each other to maintain control over the colonies. Of course, I'm generalizing but there's a clear difference of ideology that I do think explain the differences between the French and British when it came to managing their colonial empire.
- zaphirplane 3y ago
  As in invading, killing, raping, pillaging, dividing areas into artificial countries
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mamonster 3y ago
I don't know if oligarchy is the correct word, its more like a union of 7 mini-monarchies. UAE is doing so well for (mainly) 2 reasons: 1) The Shakhbut coup in Abu Dhabi 2) Abu Dhabi and Dubai buried the hatchet to form UAE(there was a lot of bad blood between the 2 states, but because Rashid bin Saeed and Zayed bin Sultan were way above average as far as authoritarians go they managed to avoid stupid conflicts and focused on cashing in on the oil).
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > I don't know if oligarchy is the correct word, its more like a union of 7 mini-monarchies Fair enough. And as you describe, it's more a diarchy of Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Nevertheless, structurally different from the absolute monarchies around them.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    It's basically just Abu Dhabi now, because they bailed out Dubai's housing sector on multiple occasion - in 2009 [0], 2019 [1], 2020 [2], and (down the grapevine) I've heard they might be providing an additional bailout to Dubai soon. Furthermore, Saudi has started requiring companies that are operating in Saudi to operate a Saudi office, and won't give tenders to those who are managing the relationship remotely from Dubai now, so companies have started moving staff to Riyadh. > Nevertheless, structurally different from the absolute monarchies around them MbS is trying to remake KSA into an Abu Dhabi 2.0, as MbZ was his mentor [0] - https://www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/12/14/dubai.10.billion.bailout/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/12/14/dubai.10.billion.bai... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1PU1LI/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1PU1LI/ [2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN22R23G/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN22R23G/
delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> experiment, for example, with religious moderation I'm not sure if this is satire or not... Religious moderation should be the default, not something to 'experiment' with.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  Are you saying "should" is the same as "is"?