4 ms·

Noah Smith's outline of the tensions and conflicts of the 1930s that led to WWII and of the War itself is excellent and should be read by all. I also share his

Noah Smith's outline of the tensions and conflicts of the 1930s that led to WWII and of the War itself is excellent and should be read by all. I also share his concerns about parallels between those incidents of the 1930s and present-day world tensions. History might not repeat itself but some of its notions certainly do. As a teenager who lived through the Cold War and especially the 13-day Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962 I've never since been so worried about a major war outbreaking as I am now. No doubt tensions haven't yet reached those 13 worrying days but it seems we could be heading that way. I just hope to hell I'm wrong. What I find most troubling is that no matter how much new upcoming generations are taught about political tensions, risks of war outbreaking and its horrible and tragic consequences by their fathers and grandfathers they always remain unprepared and ill equipped to prevent it. As those who've lived the experience and suffered often repeat, nothing prepares one for war other than war itself. Tragically, as the old adage goes, wisdom doesn't fit well on young shoulders. It's as if our inability to convey adequately how important such notions are to upcoming generations is a flaw in the human condition.

Zetobal 3y ago
[flagged]
- blub 3y ago
  It’s not his or any “generation” which is doing anything, that’s nonsensical. It’s the US, Russian, Chinese, Israeli, Iranian, etc. governments. All of which have a life of their own and can either be very limitedly or not at all democratically influenced.
  - Zetobal 3y ago
    Look at the heads of state in the examples you provided and identify the generation to which ALL of them belong.
    - barrysteve 3y ago
      The time will come when you see that you can't age-gate a war over resources. Putin can't step down from his role, the people who put him there will make sure it ends badly for him. The people in these conflicts all want to make sure their reserves stay safe, it only takes one Houthi rebel to ignite the tinderbox. No matter what age that rebel is.
      - Zetobal 3y ago
        [flagged]
        barrysteve 3y ago
        I'm not advocating for war, just describing the truth as I see it. I would hope saying the truth about the tensions would encourage people to back down.. or at least isolate the most aggressive player out from the herd of peaceful participants. The 'pretty picture' is that everyone defends their own trade lanes and we get on with life. You're right I do enjoy thinking about war, it makes relationships clearer. I don't want war.
        Zetobal 3y ago
        >> You're right I do enjoy thinking about war, it makes relationships clearer. That's the problem no matter how you rationalize it.
        barrysteve 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Zetobal 3y ago
        [flagged]
        3y ago
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Right! I agree almost totally. My Babyboomer generation has fucked things up well and truly and done so on multiple accounts—from excessive greed, its sense of entitlement, lack of consideration for following generations, environmental matters†, abandonment of ethics and established norms, and so on. It seemed to start out well, Boomer parents wanted better for their kids, which given their generation of the Great Depression and WWII is very understandable, but it did not end up like that. We Boomers knew we were better off than earlier generations, we were better educated, we had more money as kids and teenagers, we had better health care—we were the first generation with penicillin and such from the outset, and we didn't go around with a fatalistic attitude that we might not make it to adulthood—and so on. In essence, compared with our parents' generation, we were spoilt—too much of a good thing too soon. From early on we were knowledgeable about the tragedy and chaos of the first half of the 20th Century and didn't want to repeat it. Hence the rise of the Hippy movement and events like Woodstock (I never had the opportunity to attend but I saw the film the momement it was released and have seen it multiple times since). Our hearts were idealistic but like dieters we couldn't sustain the effort in a world of materialistic temptations (with our soft lifestyle we lacked the fortitude and resilience of our parents' generation). Where I disagree I cover in my last point. Human beings cannot sufficiently absorb crucial knowledge from the past to stop them repeating mistakes of the past. This is especially so in respect of war—and it's one thing we're exceptionally good at. One would expect that, as we've engaged in it many thousands of times from time immemorial. History has shown conclusively that despite our ever-yearning for peace, we humans cannot stop ourselves when it comes to war. It seems, unfortunately, it's an evolutionary instinct. _ † As I've mentioned on HN previously, I was taught about global warming (although it wasn't called that) and atmospheric effects of CO2 as part of the science curriculum in the 1960s and my Boomer generation did nothing about it until forced kicking and screaming to do so.
  - salawat 3y ago
    >Human beings cannot sufficiently absorb crucial knowledge from the past to stop them repeating mistakes of the past. This is especially so in respect of war—and it's one thing we're exceptionally good at. One would expect that, as we've engaged in it many thousands of times from time immemorial. Some things you don't get except by enduring it. The only way out is through. Adversity is just one of those types of teachers. If it's any comfort I've had a theory along the same lines that the vast majority of human communication fails by default, and that in fact, accurate conveyance in the sense of high fidelity replication of understanding is something that literally requires an institutional pipeline. However the existence of the institution as a conduit of power jeopardizes it's effectiveness at it's raison de' etre. Truly a vicious cycle to break.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into generational flamewar. We're trying to avoid flamewars here and that is one of the most tedious kinds. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: your account has been breaking the rules so often that we've banned it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40005592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40005592.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
d0mine 3y ago
You are talking as if ordinary people can have any influence on the topic.

Zetobal 3y ago

[flagged]

blub 3y ago
It’s not his or any “generation” which is doing anything, that’s nonsensical. It’s the US, Russian, Chinese, Israeli, Iranian, etc. governments. All of which have a life of their own and can either be very limitedly or not at all democratically influenced.
- Zetobal 3y ago
  Look at the heads of state in the examples you provided and identify the generation to which ALL of them belong.
  - barrysteve 3y ago
    The time will come when you see that you can't age-gate a war over resources. Putin can't step down from his role, the people who put him there will make sure it ends badly for him. The people in these conflicts all want to make sure their reserves stay safe, it only takes one Houthi rebel to ignite the tinderbox. No matter what age that rebel is.
    - Zetobal 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - barrysteve 3y ago
        I'm not advocating for war, just describing the truth as I see it. I would hope saying the truth about the tensions would encourage people to back down.. or at least isolate the most aggressive player out from the herd of peaceful participants. The 'pretty picture' is that everyone defends their own trade lanes and we get on with life. You're right I do enjoy thinking about war, it makes relationships clearer. I don't want war.
        Zetobal 3y ago
        >> You're right I do enjoy thinking about war, it makes relationships clearer. That's the problem no matter how you rationalize it.
        barrysteve 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Zetobal 3y ago
        [flagged]
        3y ago
hilbert42 3y ago
Right! I agree almost totally. My Babyboomer generation has fucked things up well and truly and done so on multiple accounts—from excessive greed, its sense of entitlement, lack of consideration for following generations, environmental matters†, abandonment of ethics and established norms, and so on. It seemed to start out well, Boomer parents wanted better for their kids, which given their generation of the Great Depression and WWII is very understandable, but it did not end up like that. We Boomers knew we were better off than earlier generations, we were better educated, we had more money as kids and teenagers, we had better health care—we were the first generation with penicillin and such from the outset, and we didn't go around with a fatalistic attitude that we might not make it to adulthood—and so on. In essence, compared with our parents' generation, we were spoilt—too much of a good thing too soon. From early on we were knowledgeable about the tragedy and chaos of the first half of the 20th Century and didn't want to repeat it. Hence the rise of the Hippy movement and events like Woodstock (I never had the opportunity to attend but I saw the film the momement it was released and have seen it multiple times since). Our hearts were idealistic but like dieters we couldn't sustain the effort in a world of materialistic temptations (with our soft lifestyle we lacked the fortitude and resilience of our parents' generation). Where I disagree I cover in my last point. Human beings cannot sufficiently absorb crucial knowledge from the past to stop them repeating mistakes of the past. This is especially so in respect of war—and it's one thing we're exceptionally good at. One would expect that, as we've engaged in it many thousands of times from time immemorial. History has shown conclusively that despite our ever-yearning for peace, we humans cannot stop ourselves when it comes to war. It seems, unfortunately, it's an evolutionary instinct. _ † As I've mentioned on HN previously, I was taught about global warming (although it wasn't called that) and atmospheric effects of CO2 as part of the science curriculum in the 1960s and my Boomer generation did nothing about it until forced kicking and screaming to do so.
- salawat 3y ago
  >Human beings cannot sufficiently absorb crucial knowledge from the past to stop them repeating mistakes of the past. This is especially so in respect of war—and it's one thing we're exceptionally good at. One would expect that, as we've engaged in it many thousands of times from time immemorial. Some things you don't get except by enduring it. The only way out is through. Adversity is just one of those types of teachers. If it's any comfort I've had a theory along the same lines that the vast majority of human communication fails by default, and that in fact, accurate conveyance in the sense of high fidelity replication of understanding is something that literally requires an institutional pipeline. However the existence of the institution as a conduit of power jeopardizes it's effectiveness at it's raison de' etre. Truly a vicious cycle to break.
dang 3y ago
Please don't take HN threads into generational flamewar. We're trying to avoid flamewars here and that is one of the most tedious kinds. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: your account has been breaking the rules so often that we've banned it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40005592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40005592.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

d0mine 3y ago

You are talking as if ordinary people can have any influence on the topic.