3 ms·

No state owned enterprises in the history of the world has the quality you've just described - fiercely competitive, nationalistic pride, desperation. China is

No state owned enterprises in the history of the world has the quality you've just described - fiercely competitive, nationalistic pride, desperation. China is now Soviet Union, but with horrendous demographics, mind-numbing debt, and wealth flooding out of the country. China is old and broke. China is fucked.

Turskarama 2y ago
Chinas situation is so incredibly far away from what the Soviet Union was. For one thing they aren't spending the majority of their GDP on a cold war.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  They've been massively increasing their defense spending, though you're right, it's not a majority of GDP. In addition, they've been trying to massively increase their military capacity, but throwing money at it only does so much: you also need young men, and there's not that many that think being in the military is a great idea, and people aren't having kids any more. At least in the old Soviet Union, there was no lack of young men being raised.
nebula8804 2y ago
You say that but then we see things like BYD introducing products like this. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg Unless you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend this is the soviet union all over again, you better start paying attention to how fast they are iterating. >China is now Soviet Union, but with horrendous demographics, mind-numbing debt, and wealth flooding out of the country. China is old and broke. China is fucked. Yeah this is the Peter Zeihan thesis but you know what, it might take a while for this to play out and in the meantime, China may not leave the arena until after they have taken out a large chunk of the western incumbents.
- amou234 2y ago
  BYD is not a Chinese state enterprise...yet. And yeah, I'm not worried. Nio Loses $35,000 A Car. https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that-should-scare-the-u-s-and-europe/ https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that... BYD lost its EV crown to Tesla after just one quarter as China’s EV market slumps https://fortune.com/asia/2024/04/03/byd-loses-ev-crown-to-tesla-after-one-quarter-china-ev-slumps/ https://fortune.com/asia/2024/04/03/byd-loses-ev-crown-to-te... The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively https://fortune.com/2024/03/07/eu-nears-hitting-chinese-evs-with-additional-tariffs/ https://fortune.com/2024/03/07/eu-nears-hitting-chinese-evs-...
  - nebula8804 2y ago
    Ok feel free to not be worried. I'd rather listen to Elon in this regard, this is one thing he does have experience in. [1]:https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-ceo-musk-chinese-ev-firms-will-demolish-rivals-without-trade-barriers-2024-01-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... >The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively The EU having no major tech giants to call their own has pivoted to regulation and tariffs against both China and the US.
    - vikramkr 2y ago
      You're really gonna take a statement from a CEO that it's important for the government to intervene in order to protect his profits at face value? Elon's made some stupid decisions in the past but I don't think he's stupid enough to be honest. Not lobbying for protectionist measures even if they aren't needed would probably be some sort of corporate malpractice.
      - nebula8804 2y ago
        When it comes to getting advice on where the EV market is going, I am definetly going to listen to the guy who is the leader of EVs in the US. Would I take relationship advice from him? Probably not, but we are talking about the EV market here.

Turskarama 2y ago

Chinas situation is so incredibly far away from what the Soviet Union was. For one thing they aren't spending the majority of their GDP on a cold war.

shiroiushi 2y ago
They've been massively increasing their defense spending, though you're right, it's not a majority of GDP. In addition, they've been trying to massively increase their military capacity, but throwing money at it only does so much: you also need young men, and there's not that many that think being in the military is a great idea, and people aren't having kids any more. At least in the old Soviet Union, there was no lack of young men being raised.

nebula8804 2y ago

You say that but then we see things like BYD introducing products like this. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izvdO-zdlKg Unless you want to keep your head in the sand and pretend this is the soviet union all over again, you better start paying attention to how fast they are iterating. >China is now Soviet Union, but with horrendous demographics, mind-numbing debt, and wealth flooding out of the country. China is old and broke. China is fucked. Yeah this is the Peter Zeihan thesis but you know what, it might take a while for this to play out and in the meantime, China may not leave the arena until after they have taken out a large chunk of the western incumbents.

amou234 2y ago
BYD is not a Chinese state enterprise...yet. And yeah, I'm not worried. Nio Loses $35,000 A Car. https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that-should-scare-the-u-s-and-europe/ https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/nio-loses-35000-a-car-that... BYD lost its EV crown to Tesla after just one quarter as China’s EV market slumps https://fortune.com/asia/2024/04/03/byd-loses-ev-crown-to-tesla-after-one-quarter-china-ev-slumps/ https://fortune.com/asia/2024/04/03/byd-loses-ev-crown-to-te... The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively https://fortune.com/2024/03/07/eu-nears-hitting-chinese-evs-with-additional-tariffs/ https://fortune.com/2024/03/07/eu-nears-hitting-chinese-evs-...
- nebula8804 2y ago
  Ok feel free to not be worried. I'd rather listen to Elon in this regard, this is one thing he does have experience in. [1]:https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-ceo-musk-chinese-ev-firms-will-demolish-rivals-without-trade-barriers-2024-01-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... >The EU just got a step closer to hitting Chinese EVs with additional tariffs—and may even apply them retroactively The EU having no major tech giants to call their own has pivoted to regulation and tariffs against both China and the US.
  - vikramkr 2y ago
    You're really gonna take a statement from a CEO that it's important for the government to intervene in order to protect his profits at face value? Elon's made some stupid decisions in the past but I don't think he's stupid enough to be honest. Not lobbying for protectionist measures even if they aren't needed would probably be some sort of corporate malpractice.
    - nebula8804 2y ago
      When it comes to getting advice on where the EV market is going, I am definetly going to listen to the guy who is the leader of EVs in the US. Would I take relationship advice from him? Probably not, but we are talking about the EV market here.