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I don’t understand why writers would use Substack to monetize their writing instead of a blog with a paid membership. Is it simply because no such product exist

I don’t understand why writers would use Substack to monetize their writing instead of a blog with a paid membership. Is it simply because no such product exists? One explanation would be that Substack provides discoverability of authors who readers would otherwise not notice. But I’m skeptical of this explanation, because my personal experience of discovering posts on Substack has rarely, if ever, been driven by Substack discoverability features. Most Substack sites I’ve found via link aggregators or Twitter. So if Substack isn’t providing discoverability, then their main value is providing publishing and monetization tools. That might make for a nice product, but it’s not a defensible one. If writers could substitute Substack with a self-hosted product providing the same monetization and publishing tools, without affecting the discoverability of their posts, then they would have no reason to stay on Substack if it introduces features that harm their main value of monetization and publishing tools.

kristjansson 3y ago
Substack was basically marketed as Blog-(ok, ok, 'newsletter')-with-paid-membership-as-service?
simonw 3y ago
How would you setup a blog with paid membership? And it needs to also deliver every post via email, because most people have no idea what an RSS reader is. Self-hosting anything with a billing mechanism, even using something like Stripe, is decidedly non-trivial for most people. Substack is by far the easiest option for that I've seen.
- ancientworldnow 3y ago
  Ghost does all that.
- chatmasta 3y ago
  Well, if they start harming their business by removing that core value-add in favor of boosting discoverability (which I posit is not a core value-add), then perhaps more products will emerge to fill the gap. It wouldn’t be hard to offer the monetization and email features as a hosted Wordpress service based on a Wordpress plugin. That would probably be enough to pull some writers off of Substack.
coldtea 3y ago
>I don’t understand why writers would use Substack to monetize their writing instead of a blog with a paid membership. Is it simply because no such product exists? Because such a blog wont be as discoverable by an audience directly interested in writing and newsletters the size of Substack's. >One explanation would be that Substack provides discoverability of authors who readers would otherwise not notice. But I’m skeptical of this explanation, because my personal experience of discovering posts on Substack has rarely, if ever, been driven by Substack discoverability features. Most Substack sites I’ve found via link aggregators or Twitter. In my case, most Substack newsletters I've found them from their Substack "notes", Substack suggestions for other similar substacks, and references in oother Substack newsletters.
mvdtnz 3y ago
It's much easier (and therefore more likely) for an existing substack reader to add a subscription to their account than to sign up with credit card details to some other blog somewhere else.
- chatmasta 3y ago
  This makes sense, although if an alternative like Ghost supported Apple Pay then they could have the same benefit of reduced friction. I don’t need to re-add my credit card to every site where I want to use Apple Pay. I just add it once to my Wallet and then can use it anywhere.
  - anonylizard 3y ago
    Do you know what cut Apple Pay charges you? Do you know many paid readers aren't even using apple devices to read them? It'll also cost time and effort for Ghost to somehow make Apple pay enabled for an open source platform (Probably a nightmare). Who is going to pay the ghost devs for that. In the end, substack's biggest advantage is its 10% cut, which is really not much. Any attempt to replicate it will quickly run up into this cost limit.
    - chatmasta 3y ago
      Apple Pay is different than in-app payments (which are 30%). It’s effectively a client-side protocol for securely providing tokenized payment info [0], and it’s integrated with a long list of e-commerce platforms and payment providers. Generally the commissions involved are the same as for any other credit card (i.e. closer to 3% than 10%). For example, Stripe [1]: > Stripe will charge the same rate for processing Apple Pay transactions as we do for all other credit and debit card transactions. There is no additional fee from Apple for Apple Pay transactions. Speaking as a user, I will always choose Apple Pay when it’s available on a website, even if for no other reason than it means I don’t need to find my wallet and enter my credit card number. (And Apple Pay was just one example - the same would apply to Google Play, which Stripe also supports.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay#Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay#Technology [1] https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-for-apple-pay-with-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-for-apple-pay-w...
nemothekid 3y ago
>Is it simply because no such product exists? I feel like you answered your own question here. Self hosting your own blog + monetization is a high bar and even when you have those things, people generally don't like entering their credit card details into random sites. Patreon predates substack and didn't even provide publishing tools while taking 8%. There are plenty of 00s pornstars who had their own sites that make more on OnlyFans. I think monetization is the primary draw, then publishing next. But I don't believe the product is just "monetization tools". You are right that isn't defensible; it's the substack brand. Consumers are comfortable paying for substack content and that kind of branding isn't easily built.
factorymoo 3y ago
I would argue that a core benefit of using Substack, beyond the easiness to write, publish, send emails, is trust for payments. I would be more reluctant at putting my credit card info in a random self hosted blog vs an established company's like Substack.
- chatmasta 3y ago
  What about a blog that supports Apple Pay?
  - ketzo 3y ago
    Okay, but how do you put that up as a writer? Is it harder than the <5 minute Substack signup process? Because if so, I think you’ve got your answer
    - chatmasta 3y ago
      That’s the case now. But a product could provide the hosting and setup for the writers. It might not attract the same VC-level returns as the platform play of Substack, but it could be profitable and steal writers from them (especially writers who already have their own form of distribution and discoverability).
  - factorymoo 3y ago
    Yeah good point - that would probably be ok for me actually.
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    I think Stripe handles Apple Pay (edit: also Google Play, per another commenter). I'm sure there are others. I'd think that Stripe, Apple Pay, and PayPal (speaking of "dark patterns") would get you about 90% of the way there. That may still be too high a bar for non-technical people, though.
    - chatmasta 3y ago
DantesKite 3y ago
Trust essentially. I don't trust random websites I've never used before, but I know Substack is a sure thing in terms of not excessively charging me money.
noahtallen 3y ago
> Is it simply because no such product exists? It's definitely possible! You could self-host WordPress, then use the Jetpack plugin, which can support premium content options (https://jetpack.com/support/newsletter/paid-newsletters/ https://jetpack.com/support/newsletter/paid-newsletters/). You could also do this with WordPress.com (https://wordpress.com/blog/2020/06/04/premium-content-and-paid-newsletters/ https://wordpress.com/blog/2020/06/04/premium-content-and-pa...) I'm sure there are even more solutions, or you could roll your own -- WordPress is extremely flexible. Disclaimer: I work for Automattic. I haven't set up a premium blog before, but it's definitely possible to self-host something very similar to substack.
Ekaros 3y ago
10% a month for someone taking care of hosting, security, billing with generating invoices and so on is not unreasonable service. At least not on the smaller scale. If your core competency is writing and not tech, buying everything as service makes lot of sense. And then comes the friction. Being on same platforms at others lowers it for some payers. Just think how much it would cost on average case to hire someone to setup paid blog, if you really did not know who to hire.
- chatmasta 3y ago
  But if this “follow” feature is reducing subscription uptake, then there is a hidden cost that amortizes to more than 10%.

kristjansson 3y ago

Substack was basically marketed as Blog-(ok, ok, 'newsletter')-with-paid-membership-as-service?

simonw 3y ago

How would you setup a blog with paid membership? And it needs to also deliver every post via email, because most people have no idea what an RSS reader is. Self-hosting anything with a billing mechanism, even using something like Stripe, is decidedly non-trivial for most people. Substack is by far the easiest option for that I've seen.

ancientworldnow 3y ago
Ghost does all that.
chatmasta 3y ago
Well, if they start harming their business by removing that core value-add in favor of boosting discoverability (which I posit is not a core value-add), then perhaps more products will emerge to fill the gap. It wouldn’t be hard to offer the monetization and email features as a hosted Wordpress service based on a Wordpress plugin. That would probably be enough to pull some writers off of Substack.

coldtea 3y ago

>I don’t understand why writers would use Substack to monetize their writing instead of a blog with a paid membership. Is it simply because no such product exists? Because such a blog wont be as discoverable by an audience directly interested in writing and newsletters the size of Substack's. >One explanation would be that Substack provides discoverability of authors who readers would otherwise not notice. But I’m skeptical of this explanation, because my personal experience of discovering posts on Substack has rarely, if ever, been driven by Substack discoverability features. Most Substack sites I’ve found via link aggregators or Twitter. In my case, most Substack newsletters I've found them from their Substack "notes", Substack suggestions for other similar substacks, and references in oother Substack newsletters.

mvdtnz 3y ago

It's much easier (and therefore more likely) for an existing substack reader to add a subscription to their account than to sign up with credit card details to some other blog somewhere else.

chatmasta 3y ago
This makes sense, although if an alternative like Ghost supported Apple Pay then they could have the same benefit of reduced friction. I don’t need to re-add my credit card to every site where I want to use Apple Pay. I just add it once to my Wallet and then can use it anywhere.
- anonylizard 3y ago
  Do you know what cut Apple Pay charges you? Do you know many paid readers aren't even using apple devices to read them? It'll also cost time and effort for Ghost to somehow make Apple pay enabled for an open source platform (Probably a nightmare). Who is going to pay the ghost devs for that. In the end, substack's biggest advantage is its 10% cut, which is really not much. Any attempt to replicate it will quickly run up into this cost limit.
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    Apple Pay is different than in-app payments (which are 30%). It’s effectively a client-side protocol for securely providing tokenized payment info [0], and it’s integrated with a long list of e-commerce platforms and payment providers. Generally the commissions involved are the same as for any other credit card (i.e. closer to 3% than 10%). For example, Stripe [1]: > Stripe will charge the same rate for processing Apple Pay transactions as we do for all other credit and debit card transactions. There is no additional fee from Apple for Apple Pay transactions. Speaking as a user, I will always choose Apple Pay when it’s available on a website, even if for no other reason than it means I don’t need to find my wallet and enter my credit card number. (And Apple Pay was just one example - the same would apply to Google Play, which Stripe also supports.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay#Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pay#Technology [1] https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-for-apple-pay-with-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/pricing-for-apple-pay-w...

nemothekid 3y ago

>Is it simply because no such product exists? I feel like you answered your own question here. Self hosting your own blog + monetization is a high bar and even when you have those things, people generally don't like entering their credit card details into random sites. Patreon predates substack and didn't even provide publishing tools while taking 8%. There are plenty of 00s pornstars who had their own sites that make more on OnlyFans. I think monetization is the primary draw, then publishing next. But I don't believe the product is just "monetization tools". You are right that isn't defensible; it's the substack brand. Consumers are comfortable paying for substack content and that kind of branding isn't easily built.

factorymoo 3y ago

I would argue that a core benefit of using Substack, beyond the easiness to write, publish, send emails, is trust for payments. I would be more reluctant at putting my credit card info in a random self hosted blog vs an established company's like Substack.

chatmasta 3y ago
What about a blog that supports Apple Pay?
- ketzo 3y ago
  Okay, but how do you put that up as a writer? Is it harder than the <5 minute Substack signup process? Because if so, I think you’ve got your answer
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    That’s the case now. But a product could provide the hosting and setup for the writers. It might not attract the same VC-level returns as the platform play of Substack, but it could be profitable and steal writers from them (especially writers who already have their own form of distribution and discoverability).
- factorymoo 3y ago
  Yeah good point - that would probably be ok for me actually.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  I think Stripe handles Apple Pay (edit: also Google Play, per another commenter). I'm sure there are others. I'd think that Stripe, Apple Pay, and PayPal (speaking of "dark patterns") would get you about 90% of the way there. That may still be too high a bar for non-technical people, though.
  - chatmasta 3y ago

DantesKite 3y ago

Trust essentially. I don't trust random websites I've never used before, but I know Substack is a sure thing in terms of not excessively charging me money.

noahtallen 3y ago

> Is it simply because no such product exists? It's definitely possible! You could self-host WordPress, then use the Jetpack plugin, which can support premium content options (https://jetpack.com/support/newsletter/paid-newsletters/ https://jetpack.com/support/newsletter/paid-newsletters/). You could also do this with WordPress.com (https://wordpress.com/blog/2020/06/04/premium-content-and-paid-newsletters/ https://wordpress.com/blog/2020/06/04/premium-content-and-pa...) I'm sure there are even more solutions, or you could roll your own -- WordPress is extremely flexible. Disclaimer: I work for Automattic. I haven't set up a premium blog before, but it's definitely possible to self-host something very similar to substack.

Ekaros 3y ago

10% a month for someone taking care of hosting, security, billing with generating invoices and so on is not unreasonable service. At least not on the smaller scale. If your core competency is writing and not tech, buying everything as service makes lot of sense. And then comes the friction. Being on same platforms at others lowers it for some payers. Just think how much it would cost on average case to hire someone to setup paid blog, if you really did not know who to hire.

chatmasta 3y ago
But if this “follow” feature is reducing subscription uptake, then there is a hidden cost that amortizes to more than 10%.