5 ms·

The many among us who already avoid those products, or who haven't gotten practical access to them, may be surprised by the tradeoffs you describe. Just becaus

The many among us who already avoid those products, or who haven't gotten practical access to them, may be surprised by the tradeoffs you describe. Just because a technology has become pervasive in some lives doesn't mean that it does a lot that matters. Like any other tradition, its value is often incidental and its popularity is mostly an accident of history (marketing, curiosity, fashion, ephemeral supply/industry shocks, etc). Nonstick pans and synthetic fabrics are very much in that group.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
It's just a learning issue, how to use a steel pan or similar safer alternatives. There are cultural memes about what to use and why and what's easier and harder.
dylan604 3y ago
This is a very myopic view. The people to do like these things have a lot more money to spend to ensure these things are around for a while. While my view might be cynical, it is closer to reality than getting people to give up creature comforts voluntarily.
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> The people to do like these things have a lot more money to spend to ensure these things are around for a while. No. If these things were never invented, those people would no be asking for them. Least not very much.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    >If these things were never invented what an even more myopic view. if only unicorns were real and pots of gold were at the ends of rainbows. if only wishing made it so. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - creato 3y ago
    You think people wouldn't be asking for non-stick pans?
    - phkahler 3y ago
      >> You think people wouldn't be asking for non-stick pans? Of course some would, but in a world where they never existed yet it would be a sort of fantasy wish. As an example where we are on the other side right now, people are trying to figure out how to make beverage containers out of paper. Not coffee cups, but longer term storage so you might buy a 6-pack of carbonated drink in a paper "can" vs metal or plastic. Never mind if you or I think that's a good idea, there are people working on it and some day it might come to be and people might think it's great for whatever reasons. My point is that the masses are not clamoring for paper cans today because they don't exist yet. Likewise, before the advent of non-stick pans, people weren't demanding them because they didn't know it was possible. That's all I meant. So no, I don't think people were seriously asking for non-stick pans prior to their invention, they simply lived with what was available.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        > carbonated drink in a paper "can" vs metal or plastic. The thing that gets me is that if something is so caustic or reactive that it is causing issues with the metal in the can, WHY is it a good idea for human consumption. I've seen concrete at one of those gives you wings beverage makers where the concrete at the shipping dock had to be replaced after enough spills weakened the concrete. Yet people still continue to put that in their bodies.
        eindiran 3y ago
        The thing that makes them "caustic or acidic" is that they are acidic (~3pH), by virtue of having dissolved carbon dioxide (ie carbonic acid) + acidic preservatives in them. You are putting them into your stomach (with your gastric acid, ~2pH). If you spilled your stomach contents on the concrete shipping dock repeatedly, it would weaken the concrete much faster. Now, I don't drink soda and they are objectively bad for your teeth, but the fact that they eat away at concrete does not seem like the right reason to avoid them.
- mgerdts 3y ago
  The stainless steel frying pan I use was purchased about 30 years ago as part of a set that included a couple saucepans and lids. I paid less than $50 for it new. That was a lot when I was a student, but not an out of reach luxury. If it helped me avoid eating 20 meals out it easily paid for itself.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

It's just a learning issue, how to use a steel pan or similar safer alternatives. There are cultural memes about what to use and why and what's easier and harder.

dylan604 3y ago

This is a very myopic view. The people to do like these things have a lot more money to spend to ensure these things are around for a while. While my view might be cynical, it is closer to reality than getting people to give up creature comforts voluntarily.

phkahler 3y ago
>> The people to do like these things have a lot more money to spend to ensure these things are around for a while. No. If these things were never invented, those people would no be asking for them. Least not very much.
- dylan604 3y ago
  >If these things were never invented what an even more myopic view. if only unicorns were real and pots of gold were at the ends of rainbows. if only wishing made it so. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- creato 3y ago
  You think people wouldn't be asking for non-stick pans?
  - phkahler 3y ago
    >> You think people wouldn't be asking for non-stick pans? Of course some would, but in a world where they never existed yet it would be a sort of fantasy wish. As an example where we are on the other side right now, people are trying to figure out how to make beverage containers out of paper. Not coffee cups, but longer term storage so you might buy a 6-pack of carbonated drink in a paper "can" vs metal or plastic. Never mind if you or I think that's a good idea, there are people working on it and some day it might come to be and people might think it's great for whatever reasons. My point is that the masses are not clamoring for paper cans today because they don't exist yet. Likewise, before the advent of non-stick pans, people weren't demanding them because they didn't know it was possible. That's all I meant. So no, I don't think people were seriously asking for non-stick pans prior to their invention, they simply lived with what was available.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      > carbonated drink in a paper "can" vs metal or plastic. The thing that gets me is that if something is so caustic or reactive that it is causing issues with the metal in the can, WHY is it a good idea for human consumption. I've seen concrete at one of those gives you wings beverage makers where the concrete at the shipping dock had to be replaced after enough spills weakened the concrete. Yet people still continue to put that in their bodies.
      - eindiran 3y ago
        The thing that makes them "caustic or acidic" is that they are acidic (~3pH), by virtue of having dissolved carbon dioxide (ie carbonic acid) + acidic preservatives in them. You are putting them into your stomach (with your gastric acid, ~2pH). If you spilled your stomach contents on the concrete shipping dock repeatedly, it would weaken the concrete much faster. Now, I don't drink soda and they are objectively bad for your teeth, but the fact that they eat away at concrete does not seem like the right reason to avoid them.
mgerdts 3y ago
The stainless steel frying pan I use was purchased about 30 years ago as part of a set that included a couple saucepans and lids. I paid less than $50 for it new. That was a lot when I was a student, but not an out of reach luxury. If it helped me avoid eating 20 meals out it easily paid for itself.